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01-05-2013, 05:52 AM   #76
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As a back up the video mode was more than sufficient for me as a reporter yesterday. Our pro camera teams where busy elsewhere and they know I alway's have my DSLR (K-5) with me. But without a tripod or another dedicated rig to get a steady shot a DSLR on it's one is quite worthless for video work. I don't have a good tripod head for video, so I couldn't make any movements (panning) and a zoom in or out with the DA*16-50 didn't work either; the zoom ring doesn't have a uniform stiffness to it. The result can be viewed here on 6.09 minutes:

It is just a short clip. But it shows that even with the current limitations it is possible to get a acceptable result!


Last edited by Fries; 01-05-2013 at 05:58 AM. Reason: Trying to get Youtube to work...
01-05-2013, 06:52 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
As for getting a camcorder, there are very few that have APS-C sensors let alone FF ones, and they are usually around 2000
You're right about camcorders - but that's for consumer and small-industry use. In the big-budget industry, they can only use DSLRs (so far) in very tight or special situations, not the entire movie. When I said about video cameras getting smaller and better, it's like this:


an Arri from the 80's (please correct me if I'm wrong)


and last year's Canon C500.

Pentax can, of course improve their video as far as anyone might go. But they don't have Canon's dedication to video; even the Ricoh people after the merger wanted Pentax to shine as a stills tool. They can mutate the entire K-0x line for video, if they have plans for that, but as of now the more pressing concern is developing a full-frame stills cam and catching up to Canikon's AF and metering systems. Again, I don't hate Canon; it's just that Pentax from what I see doesn't want to be Canon.
01-05-2013, 09:55 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
You're right about camcorders - but that's for consumer and small-industry use. In the big-budget industry, they can only use DSLRs (so far) in very tight or special situations, not the entire movie. When I said about video cameras getting smaller and better, it's like this:


an Arri from the 80's (please correct me if I'm wrong)


and last year's Canon C500.

Pentax can, of course improve their video as far as anyone might go. But they don't have Canon's dedication to video; even the Ricoh people after the merger wanted Pentax to shine as a stills tool. They can mutate the entire K-0x line for video, if they have plans for that, but as of now the more pressing concern is developing a full-frame stills cam and catching up to Canikon's AF and metering systems. Again, I don't hate Canon; it's just that Pentax from what I see doesn't want to be Canon.

I'm not saying Pentax should try go into the big budget industry, I in no way suggest that because that would not be a good move imo. I mean for consumer and low budget productions DSLRs are good, which is where Pentax can make a mark.
01-05-2013, 10:44 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Pentax has put little effort in that area.

Even in the K-30 and K-01, with the latter the better video cam, it hasn't compromised still performance.
I'm not saying that in a particular camera the existing video function is somehow "hurting" the still function in the same camera, but whatever R&D they do on the video is R&D they aren't doing somewhere else (or it is more money they are spending and therefore charging). So you can't *know* in what way it may or may not be "hurting" the still side of things -- it isn't something tangible you pick up a camera and look at.

IF they decided to spruce up the video processing and in order to do that they de-prioritized making a better AF system (sooner) then it did in fact "hurt" the still function, but you can't pick up a K-30 and tell that. Or maybe they didn't make any serious sacrifice for one thing over the another and there were reasonable resources to go around (although there are always choices of priority when allocating resources as they are never unlimited), but then you're still paying for something you don't necessarily care about. If you want it to be a great video camera, and let's say they do that, and then in the next model the video stuff isn't much better but it has a built-in GPS and sophisticated navigation system and bluetooth communication and can do all this cool stuff with apps, etc -- none of which you care about. And now it costs $300 more than if it didn't have all that crap. Are you gonna wanna pay for that? It doesn't "hurt" the video mode, after all. Or they realize they can't get away with that extra cost, so they DON'T upgrade the sensor, and DON'T upgrade the processor, etc. So it is compromising things in an invisible way simply because the upgrades are absent.

It's a balancing act, I know -- I just hope they have their priorities straight like someone else said above and the primary resources should be allocated for the primary function, and I don't want to pay lots of extra $$$ for features I don't need.


Last edited by vonBaloney; 01-05-2013 at 10:49 AM.
01-05-2013, 11:37 PM   #80
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Some movies are completely shot on DSLRs. Of course those are small indie productions with small budgets, but it can be done (though it is not optimal of course).

I think it would be easy for Pentax to offer an uncompressed good quality HDMI output that filmmakers can record with external recorders. Canon can't do that except for their high end DSLRs that are meant for professional video mode and thus expensive. But Pentax? There is no video market they are in that they could hurt. Or an overlay for the various aspect ratios that are common in movie making, to aid with framing. Would be rather trivial, no? If you are catering to the movie industry costly and difficult features such as video AF are not important. Just the ability to get a high quality output and to do all the settings.

Mostly I shoot photos. Well, before I got the K-5 anyway. But had the K-5 been any worse in video, like how it is in the K-30 is for example, I would have switched system.

Anyway, to get better codecs, that compress better, you need to use newer, faster CPUs, from which the rest also profits. See K-30 for example. Maybe Pentax upgraded the CPU for better video functions, and as a nice bonus got faster processing for photos too? Some new features benefit both video and photo.

Ps: GPS would be cool. I like that thought.
01-06-2013, 02:59 AM   #81
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Right, I don't care about what the big boys use, Pentax should still improve in this area.
01-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
an Arri from the 80's (please correct me if I'm wrong)
This is a 16mm film camera -the ARRI 416. That round thing on the back is the magazine for a roll of film.

If Black Magic Design and Digital Bolex, who had literally never manufactured a camera (ever) before last year can release low-budget digital cinema cameras, I see no reason that Pentax shouldn't be able to be competitive. It is clear that they have no desire to do so.

I would love to see them purchase Magic Lantern, though, and develop it further for their cameras.
01-08-2013, 06:32 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
For Pentax even a small market share would be an improvement :P

I just don't think they can pull it off. I mean give their DSLRs a proper video mode. Though there are clearly some things they _could_ do. Maybe increase the quality of audio recording. Let us chose aperture etc. while recording (though the noises while changing it, the abrupt change in brightness, and even the camera shake introduced when doing so may not make it that usable.

I do not think that the K-30 is an improvement over the K-5 in terms of video. One of the things that made me pick a K-5 over a K-30 was the video mode of the K-5. IMHO the only advantage the K-30 has is smaller files. The SR is bloody awful on the K-30, while it is absolutely brilliant on the K-5. It very much eliminates any shaking on the K-5. It makes the image occasionally look blurry on the K-30, there are light streaks appearing out of nowhere, the picture wobbles around (top part of the image is stable, the bottom part wobbles around). Basically I don't think you can shoot video with SR activated on the K-30. And AF while recording video? Sounds good... but it is not continuous. It is not smooth. And it seems to take a few tries before it gets it right. At least when I tested the K-30. I might as well do without and focus by hand, that results in much smoother results. Strangely enough MF seems to work best on the screen with lenses with a shallow DoF (and wide open). With the kit lens I have a hard time.

The K-30 is brilliant in terms of video... on paper. In my hands it was a huge let down.
Thanks for your comments.

Right now, I'm contemplating purchasing a "discontinued" K-5. As a dedicated K-10 and K-20 user (plus some old K-100Ds) the video capability on the K-5 is intriguing, but having never had a DSLR that did that (too), I'm somewhat a "babe in the woods".

I did look at the K-30 as an alternative (as well as the K-5II and IIs) but the moire issues with the latter have me spooked. I shoot mainly outdoors shots with an occasional family get together. The K-10 has done a fairly good job of that, but right now, I'm sitting on the fence as to whether to go "old" (i.e a K-5) or wait until Pentax gets off its duff and gives us a real full-frame design.

01-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #84
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You know, the K5 has a decent codec. All it needs is full manual control, which can be done via firmware. So what the hell Pentax?? You didn't even put full manual control in the K5 II...
01-08-2013, 10:53 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
All it needs is full manual control, which can be done via firmware. So what the hell Pentax?? You didn't even put full manual control in the K5 II...
Like I mentioned above, their actions clearly indicate that they are just not very interested in video users. They seem to have effectively thrown in the towel in that market. For some unfathomable reason.
01-09-2013, 06:18 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Like I mentioned above, their actions clearly indicate that they are just not very interested in video users. They seem to have effectively thrown in the towel in that market. For some unfathomable reason.
Well if nothing good comes soon I'm just going to move brand..

Is it a bad idea to start a petition for them to give us a good video mode?/ update K7/5/x?
01-09-2013, 06:25 AM   #87
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I've stated this many times before. HDSLR is more or less a "fad". No, it won't disappear from cameras, but all you nutjobs talking about how they are going to replace dedicated cams are just that, nutjobs. Serious pros (and eventually even the not so serious semi-pros and amateurs) will get tired of the stupidly expensive add-ons and poor ergonomics, and you will start to see large sensors in properly designed bodies that use interchangeable lenses at fair prices, and then you will see "the previously mentioned film studios are working with the camera makers as we speak to make this happen. This is something truly driven, right now, by the demand for it and those demanding it are helping engineer the implementation and the evolution of technology". Oh wait! That's already starting to happen.

Last edited by Jodokast96; 01-09-2013 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Quoting when I didn't want it to.
01-09-2013, 06:31 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
Well if nothing good comes soon I'm just going to move brand..
I'd hate to say this, but if video was the primary reason you went with Pentax, then you should've just started with Canon. But wait a bit more and Pentax will probably come out with something better for video, they just need a little more time.
01-09-2013, 06:34 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
I've stated this many times before. HDSLR is more or less a "fad". No, it won't disappear from cameras, but all you nutjobs talking about how they are going to replace dedicated cams are just that, nutjobs. Serious pros (and eventually even the not so serious semi-pros and amateurs) will get tired of the stupidly expensive add-ons and poor ergonomics, and you will start to see large sensors in properly designed bodies that use interchangeable lenses at fair prices, and then you will see "the previously mentioned film studios are working with the camera makers as we speak to make this happen. This is something truly driven, right now, by the demand for it and those demanding it are helping engineer the implementation and the evolution of technology". Oh wait! That's already starting to happen.
Urm sorry? Wheres your evidence for this? I think your sounding like the nutjob. DSLRs are not going to replace cinema cameras, but they can easily replace cameras for low budget shooters.

Also yeah your right, DSLRs are terrible ergonomically, how on earth will we survive with them on a tripod. And what expensive add-ons are you talking about?
01-09-2013, 06:37 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
I'd hate to say this, but if video was the primary reason you went with Pentax, then you should've just started with Canon. But wait a bit more and Pentax will probably come out with something better for video, they just need a little more time.
No I came to Pentax for different reasons and I'm not going to be switching anytime soon, but in the future I will be thinking seriously about Video. In anyway, I would probably go for the GH3 over a Canon.

But yeah hopefully by the time I need video (1 year?) Pentax will have a good offering.

Also, what happened to Vitaly(?) the guy who hacked the GH2, isn't he a Pentax fan? Could he hack it?
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