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11-08-2012, 07:18 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The issue is that you typically don't anticipate the moiré, i.e., you are not aware until it may be too late.
Then you live with the results - you were aware of the risk and you made the purchase anyway.

QuoteQuote:
Also, I'm not sure why people want a K-5 IIs to then stop down to avoid moiré. Why not take the shot with a K-5 II with the aperture you wanted to straight away?
For precisely the reason I listed earlier in this thread - 99% of the time I don't believe it will be necessary, and therefore, 99% of the time I will get a sharper image without stopping down than I would with the AA filter on the K5ii. If I was doing wedding or architectural photography, I might make a different choice, but my photos are mostly landscapes, wildlife and travel photography, and the number of situations likely to result in moire is tiny.

11-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #17
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It's a matter of philosophy, do you go for the sharpest possible image, or do you compromise trying to avoid problems. Having compared images, and having decided that using a K5IIs there is absolutely no reason to move to a D600.. this is critical stuff. Not changing system saves me a pile of money. Looking at a K-5 or K5 II image, I'm not sure I would make the same decision. I've always felt K-5 images should be sharper... now they are.
11-11-2012, 02:57 AM   #18
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Apparently without noticing, Adam has produced another "real world moiré" example; the f/5.6 cacti landscape shot shows some nasty moiré (right most cactus).

Proof that even landscape images can be affected (admittedly, cacti seem to be a special case ) and that one need not immediately notice moiré necessarily even though it can be very visible, when the image is blown up.

P.S.: The K-5 comparison images do not look right to me in terms of focus. Something appears to be wrong with Adam/Ole's K-5 when it is not close focusing. Maybe not, I'm not arguing this; just surprised at the K-5 softness which I haven't seen anywhere else.
11-11-2012, 05:14 PM   #19
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I'd like to see what 24mpix sensor in aps-c looks like.

My speculation is that 16 is a bit low unless you are doing something fancy like Fuji to get rid of the AA and not have problems with moire.

11-27-2012, 08:42 PM - 1 Like   #20
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Just a quick comment on the moire in the cactus shot. Assuming that real-world moire is fairly rare, there's a relatively simple solution for overcoming it. (see attached)

Steps:
  1. open in Photoshop
  2. add blank layer above image
  3. paint over the affected area (in this case, with green)
  4. change blending mode of layer to "color"
Attached Images
 
11-27-2012, 09:25 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jasonwarth Quote
Just a quick comment on the moire in the cactus shot. Assuming that real-world moire is fairly rare, there's a relatively simple solution for overcoming it. (see attached)

Steps:
  1. open in Photoshop
  2. add blank layer above image
  3. paint over the affected area (in this case, with green)
  4. change blending mode of layer to "color"
That's a workable solution for that shot, though I don't own PS.

I do shoot a lot of buildings though but usually at greater than 5.6, even so I'm betting I'd have a fair number to correct. Going to wait until I see more widespread use of the iis before I rule it in or out. Definitely great that such options exist.
11-27-2012, 11:24 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
P.S.: The K-5 comparison images do not look right to me in terms of focus.
It is not just focus - the cacti sample JPEG is in Adobe RGB colour space, not sRGB, so the colours may be looking wrong for most people.

QuoteOriginally posted by jasonwarth Quote
there's a relatively simple solution for overcoming it.
Indeed.
Even using power tools like Photoshop isn't required. An old freebie copy of PaintShopPro I sometimes use has dedicated moire correction tools under the menu: Adjust > Add/Remove Noise > Moire Pattern Removal. Fixing Adams cacti image took a matter of a second. I'm sure The Gimp and Photoshop also have filters out there that can deal with moire in an automated way too. Of course, Lightroom and DxO also have easy to use moire correction tools. Moire as a issue seems well covered by a lot of software.
11-28-2012, 12:42 AM   #23
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rawr, you're a wealth of knowledge. I've owned the last 6 version of Paintshop Pro and never knew that option existed. I guess I don't pay attention to things until I need it.

11-28-2012, 07:14 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I've owned the last 6 version of Paintshop Pro and never knew that option existed.
I used to have a very old prior-to-Corel PSP that I would use a lot for web graphics, then a few years ago I got a Lexar USB stick that offered a free copy of PSP X (v10 circa 2005) via a download. I still use that PSP periodically today. I really should upgrade I guess.
11-30-2012, 11:08 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Even using power tools like Photoshop isn't required.
Fair point. That said—anyone who spends $1,200 on a camera (+ $$$ on good lenses) should really have a copy of Photoshop—even if it's an older version, or Photoshop "Elements"—which (I think) has almost all the main features, and only runs ~$100. The value of a powerful editing tool is hard to overstate, since it's such an essential part of digital photography. I'd argue that it's at least as important as good glass for anyone operating at (or aspiring to operate at) a "serious-amateur" level or above.

As much as I loathe certain things about Adobe, there is no question that Photoshop is the most practical/powerful application for general image editing (with the exception of Adobe Lightroom, for those who shoot RAW).
11-30-2012, 12:42 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jasonwarth Quote
anyone who spends $1,200 on a camera (+ $$$ on good lenses) should really have a copy of Photoshop—even if it's an older version, or Photoshop "Elements"
I kind of agree. Everyone using a digital camera would certainly benefit from using and becoming familiar with a decent graphics app.

But I have never owned a full-version of Photoshop - never needed it. Elements 8 is the closest I have to 'full' Photoshop. But I still hardly use even Elements simply because it doesn't do anything much that I require for my photos.

However I am not a total software philistine - I do have PDCU 4, Lightroom 4, DxO Optics Pro 8, Aftershot Pro, Capture One 6 Express and RawTherapee loaded on my photography PC , so many regular graphics editing tasks (even using PS filters) are often covered well enough just by those tools, rather than requiring Photoshop per se.

But yeah, PS is pretty much the industry standard, so there are certainly advantages to knowing it and using it.

Last edited by rawr; 11-30-2012 at 12:50 PM.
11-30-2012, 02:25 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by jasonwarth Quote
As much as I loathe certain things about Adobe, there is no question that Photoshop is the most practical/powerful application for general image editing (with the exception of Adobe Lightroom, for those who shoot RAW).
I frankly don't care what Photoshop does - at AUD$1168 from the online store it's still insanely overpriced. Paintshop Pro does 99% of what Photoshop does and some things which it doesn't do for a fraction of the price. I might consider Lightroom or Elements, but not the full Photoshop at Adobe pricing.
11-30-2012, 10:42 PM   #28
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RobG: you should care, because "what Photoshop does" is more or less the definition of what's possible in digital image editing. As I said above, you can get the new version of Photoshop Elements for just over $100 (US). What's $100 for the most powerful image editing software available?
Like I said—there are things I LOATHE about Adobe (e.g., pricing)—but Photoshop stands alone as the standard for image editing, and using it is a great way to learn and practice the fundamental concepts involved in digital imagery (channels, application of mathematical formulas to change the look of things, etc.)

rawr: If you have Lightroom 4—'nuff said. I think LR is the best thing since sliced bread. I still rely heavily on PS for design, but thanks to LR, I've all but abandoned PS for photo editing.
11-30-2012, 11:14 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by jasonwarth Quote
RobG: you should care, because "what Photoshop does" is more or less the definition of what's possible in digital image editing. As I said above, you can get the new version of Photoshop Elements for just over $100 (US). What's $100 for the most powerful image editing software available?
If I was a Mac user, I would consider it, but I'm a PC user and I never liked the interface. Also, as an Australian I would have to pay AUD$131.25 for the same product, and the AUD is currently worth MORE than the USD. I'm sick of being ripped off by US companies (mostly Microsoft, who charge me more than a US citizen to download exactly the same files from exactly the same servers when my currency is worth more than the USD). So, no, I don't think I should care.

QuoteQuote:
Like I said—there are things I LOATHE about Adobe (e.g., pricing)—but Photoshop stands alone as the standard for image editing, and using it is a great way to learn and practice the fundamental concepts involved in digital imagery (channels, application of mathematical formulas to change the look of things, etc.)
What can it do that I can't do with Paintshop Pro? More importantly, what can it do that I'm actually likely to want to do, which I can't do with PSP? At the moment I'm more interested in taking good photos than spending a lot of time trying to make a poor photo into a good one with Photoshop or any other editing tool. If I was going to spend $1000 I'd rather buy a new laptop or a new lens, not a photo editing program. Photoshop is not just a bit overpriced, it's ludicrously overpriced. Anyway, you're welcome to your opinion, of course. You're happy with the product (presumably) and what you can do with it. I'm happy with what I have too, and I'm not going to spend the price of a DA*300 f4 on a piece of software which gives me a very small advantage over what I have. Pretty much all the photos I have posted on this site were resized and tweaked with PSP, and they look fine to me.
12-01-2012, 01:53 AM   #30
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I was shooting a pretty parrot and upon zoom in 100% I saw faint moire. Should I sell the K5IIs?


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