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11-14-2012, 07:35 PM   #1
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K5 RAW Preview Image is Desaturated/Overexposed, RAW Correct. WTF?

SOLVED! See here.

Guys, a weird issue started happening in just the three days. I'm actively taking photos every day, so I've noticed the abrupt transition when this started occurring. I want to point out that nothing has changed in my software; I haven't updated the camera firmware since September, and Lightroom or Photoshop hasn't updated in a long time. I haven't changed the process, any settings in the camera, no new lenses, etc etc in many months. Please note that I've owned this body since shortly after the K5 came out, so I'm not just "figuring this out".


What I'm seeing happen recently is that when taking a picture, in the camera's LCD preview, it appears undersaturated and very often looks like it's overexposed with a lack of color depth. When initially viewing the thumbnails in Lightroom, it pulls up the JPG from the RAW file and shows as the camera back LCD does, but when Lightroom finishes processing the thumbnails for the RAW file the image appears as I would expect; with rich colors and correct exposure.

At first I thought the aperture blades were sticking, but now that I've seen the RAW files being reprocessed by Lightroom, I believe that somehow the camera's JPG preview rendering function is torqued. Please see the following images which illustrate the issue more clearly.

I'm loathe to do a hard factory reset, as I have a number of USER mode settings and many of the buttons have been modified. I'd like to treat this as a last resort.


Some Information:
RAW Format: DNG
Color Space: AdobeRGB
LCD Color Tuning: 0 / 0

Lenses:
DA 40mm Limited
DA 15mm Limited
DA 70mm Limited

Before Lightroom Processes the Previews:


After Lightroom Processes the Previews:



Last edited by Epoch of Entropy; 11-14-2012 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Problem solved.
11-14-2012, 07:39 PM   #2
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Almost has to be a setting on the camera, the right arrow lets you select vivid, bright etc, make sure there isnt something odd in that. The raw files look fine because the camera settings only apply to jpg.
11-14-2012, 07:43 PM   #3
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I have no JPG processing settings enabled for JPG record mode. Note that I'm shooting these files as RAW DNG.

Cross Bracketing: Off
Extended Bracketing: Off
Digital Filter: Off
HDR: Off

I've even turned the NR off!
11-14-2012, 07:45 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Epoch of Entropy Quote
I have no JPG processing settings enabled for JPG record mode. Note that I'm shooting these files as RAW DNG.

Cross Bracketing: Off
Extended Bracketing: Off
Digital Filter: Off
HDR: Off

I've even turned the NR off!
There are always jpg settings of some kind on the camera, from natural, bright, custom, etc. Those are what control the preview, so if you turn the saturation way down in that, then that's what the preview will look like. Easy fix.

11-14-2012, 07:45 PM   #5
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I dont think its related to processing. Have you checked your LCD display settings. For instance, if you jack up the display brightness the photos may look overexposed when in fact they are okay...
11-14-2012, 07:46 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
I dont think its related to processing. Have you checked your LCD display settings. For instance, if you jack up the display brightness the photos may look overexposed when in fact they are okay...
Then they would still look OK in the initial LR preview, but they don't.
11-14-2012, 07:49 PM   #7
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Well, lightroom always does that for me and my K-7. They look too dark and then when they open up they are fine. I used to have the problem when I would shoot with the K-7 and it would look okay on the LCD (not checking the histogram) but when I open them in LR they were too dark. My solution was to decrease the brightness of the LCD so that when they are actually underexposed they would look underexposed on the LCD also
11-14-2012, 07:51 PM   #8
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I don't mean to state the obvious but... are you aware that LR applies adjustments to previews?

11-14-2012, 07:56 PM   #9
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Well, I think we are talking about the Library module. Once you get into the develop module and go through presets then yes, the previews would reflect the adjustments. I think he is concerned about why as he is importing them they look too dark but then once imported and opened up then they look okay. Unless I missed something....
11-14-2012, 08:02 PM   #10
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Solved

QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
There are always jpg settings of some kind on the camera, from natural, bright, custom, etc. Those are what control the preview, so if you turn the saturation way down in that, then that's what the preview will look like. Easy fix.

OK, the issue is fixed. I must have somehow pressed the "Custom Image" button accidentally, and set the mode to "Bleach Bypass". This apparently affects the RAW preview... now that's *completely* counter-intuitive to me. I'm not sure I see ANY benefit to this functionality. One would think that even if you were shooting RAW+, this should only affect the JPG, but still show the RAW as is.

Do PEF files store these develop settings and show up in the Pentax RAW processing software with the "magic" already applied to the RAW?
11-14-2012, 08:06 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Epoch of Entropy Quote
OK, the issue is fixed. I must have somehow pressed the "Custom Image" button accidentally, and set the mode to "Bleach Bypass". This apparently affects the RAW preview... now that's *completely* counter-intuitive to me. I'm not sure I see ANY benefit to this functionality. One would think that even if you were shooting RAW+, this should only affect the JPG, but still show the RAW as is.

Do PEF files store these develop settings and show up in the Pentax RAW processing software with the "magic" already applied to the RAW?
There is no such thing as RAW "as-is" -- it MUST be "developed" one way or another to display it at all, so you must make a choice there.
11-14-2012, 08:10 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Epoch of Entropy Quote
OK, the issue is fixed. I must have somehow pressed the "Custom Image" button accidentally, and set the mode to "Bleach Bypass". This apparently affects the RAW preview... now that's *completely* counter-intuitive to me. I'm not sure I see ANY benefit to this functionality. One would think that even if you were shooting RAW+, this should only affect the JPG, but still show the RAW as is.

Do PEF files store these develop settings and show up in the Pentax RAW processing software with the "magic" already applied to the RAW?
The camera settings are transferred and read with certain software.
11-14-2012, 08:20 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I don't mean to state the obvious but... are you aware that LR applies adjustments to previews?
By default when first opening an image LR will first read the preview image in the RAW file for display, then opens the RAW and extracts enough information to generate a new preview image, which then LR gives preference to using and updates the display. It will then ignore the embedded preview image until the cache is purged. You can see this happen in real time by scrolling to images and watching them "pop" into the ACR profile.

AFTER that point, Lightroom then makes "Develop" adjustments to internal catalog preview (which is what I'm thinking you're saying) which was generated from the extracted RAW data, NOT the preview image embedded in the RAW file.

Note my description in the original post refers to before LR processes and after LR processes the embedded previews.
11-14-2012, 08:21 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
The camera settings are transferred and read with certain software.
Useful to know. Might be more useful if LR read it.
11-14-2012, 11:40 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ponosby Britt Quote
The camera LCD Display is a JPEG display. The RAW file has to converted to be displayed on the camera LCD. The camera histogram is also displaying the JPEG conversion. It has nothing to do however with the Raw DNG file.
I understand that, and knew that before getting in to what I was saying later (the original post alludes to this).

My following argument was that Pentax shouldn't alter the RAW JPG preview, and should have reserved these settings for JPG only exposures.

But the more I think about it, I can also understand why Pentax allows users to set the "auto develop" settings to affect the RAW preview, especially now understanding that some select software (anyone know which?) can read the auto develop settings. In a controlled environment or preference of artistic interpretation, (say someone who likes B/W high contrast) they may want to see the preview as a close(r) or final approximation of that development and have them wired in as a preference.

I think that I've changed my "wish" from wanting Pentax to disable this for RAW, to Pentax setting this as ACR settings when saving DNG files.
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