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12-04-2012, 12:39 PM   #46
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But you're saying higher ISO's now and those are vey valid.
When you're using ISO 2000 like what you said then you're missing out sadly.

I still need to look into it but some say that ISO above 1600 are gained by the firmware and not the hardware, if that's true then in theory you can use ISO 1600, push it to ISO 6400 with lightroom and get the same result as shooting with ISO 6400

12-04-2012, 01:25 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But you're saying higher ISO's now and those are vey valid.
When you're using ISO 2000 like what you said then you're missing out sadly.

I still need to look into it but some say that ISO above 1600 are gained by the firmware and not the hardware, if that's true then in theory you can use ISO 1600, push it to ISO 6400 with lightroom and get the same result as shooting with ISO 6400
Underexpose by a corresponding number of stops, then raise by those number of stops in PP and see what you come up with.
12-04-2012, 02:58 PM   #48
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It's not a hard test to do but i don't have the time sadly this month.
12-04-2012, 03:17 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
When you're using ISO 2000 like what you said then you're missing out sadly.
But as John said, raising the ISO in the shoot will let you hold a higher shutter speed, thus avoiding blur, or getting an effect you want.

Any IQ trade off with high-ISO may be worth it, especially since you can't fix motion blur in post, but you can do a pretty good job fixing noise in post.

So it's not worth limiting the K-5 to 1600 ISO when shooting gigs, IMHO. At 1600 ISO, K-5 SNR is 29.1dB, and SNR falls quite slowly to 24.5db at 6400 ISO.

K-5 (and K-x) high ISO IQ does degrade, but doesn't fall off a cliff past 1600 ISO.

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Last edited by rawr; 12-04-2012 at 03:23 PM.
12-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #50
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Sometimes motion blur is a good thing. I played with it here and I think it worked but I wouldn't want it all of the time. I was going for a pseudo film look.

12-04-2012, 03:51 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But as John said, raising the ISO in the shoot will let you hold a higher shutter speed, thus avoiding blur, or getting an effect you want.
Sure where did i said that was a problem?

John said he used ISO2000 and for that value it's a different matter.
Why go there with the denoise while you can use ISO1600 without denoise, the differnce in exposure is too small to effect the shutter blur if so then under expose the ISO1600 shot a tad.

Also if all ISO's above 1600 are trully ISO1600 photos pushed by the firmware then the answer to your motion blur is to use ISO1600 and simply underexpose and fix the exposure in post.
12-04-2012, 04:05 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Also if all ISO's above 1600 are trully ISO1600 photos pushed by the firmware then the answer to your motion blur is to use ISO1600 and simply underexpose and fix the exposure in post.
Meh. Why not just let the camera do it's job?
For the K200D that approach makes sense, but not the K-5.
12-04-2012, 05:09 PM   #53
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Because the K5 actually not just push the image but it also denoise them, that's a no for RAW files if you ask me...
And so if you can get more out if it if you process at home then thats worth it maybe.
It will have a bigger effect then having an AA filter or not.......

12-04-2012, 07:13 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
the K5 actually not just push the image but it also denoise them... that's a no for RAW files if you ask me
Any effect of 'forced NR in RAW' is extremely subtle, and the whole issue should be of little concern to anyone worried about maintaining the [imaginary] integrity of their RAWs. K-5 high-ISOs still have enough noise in them, that's for sure, especially past ISO 5000 or so and in dim light. It's not like Lightroom's NR sliders have no job anymore due to the 'inbuilt denoise' in K-5 RAW files!
12-04-2012, 07:30 PM - 1 Like   #55
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I do concerts with my K5. A few of these may be K20D, but you get the idea.

Mike Oria Photography | Concert Photography
12-05-2012, 09:26 AM   #56
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Really beautiful work Mike!
12-05-2012, 11:00 AM   #57
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I don't know if it's the same for you folks, but at most venues where I shoot concerts (mainly little clubs and bars), I sometimes end up not looking at my meter all that much. Once my aperture, speed and ISO are set, I generally stay within the same range and meter once in a while from looking at some of my shots in the view finder. I spot meter and use auto WB when the show starts and leave it at that. I would never have done this with film but with DSLRs and the better dynamic range it's possible. I really love the K-5. I think I'm in love, I dunno. I might have to see a professional about that.
12-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
Really beautiful work Mike!
thanks!
12-05-2012, 11:59 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Into The Lens Quote
I don't know if it's the same for you folks, but at most venues where I shoot concerts (mainly little clubs and bars), I sometimes end up not looking at my meter all that much. Once my aperture, speed and ISO are set, I generally stay within the same range and meter once in a while from looking at some of my shots in the view finder. I spot meter and use auto WB when the show starts and leave it at that. I would never have done this with film but with DSLRs and the better dynamic range it's possible. I really love the K-5. I think I'm in love, I dunno. I might have to see a professional about that.
good advice. Unless the spots are moving or other lights changing intensity, i do the same. Just to protect the odd hot spot, i tend to shoot with a little bit of negative EV compensation and bring things up in post. Marc Sabatella turned me onto a great trick for concerts of underexposing in order to get a faster shutter to counter motion blur (in flash-less photography); as a result, in dark venues, i expose to the left as a rule, then pump up exposure as much as a couple of stops in post. The sensor on the K5 really allows this with minimal noise.
12-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
good advice. Unless the spots are moving or other lights changing intensity, i do the same. Just to protect the odd hot spot, i tend to shoot with a little bit of negative EV compensation and bring things up in post. Marc Sabatella turned me onto a great trick for concerts of underexposing in order to get a faster shutter to counter motion blur (in flash-less photography); as a result, in dark venues, i expose to the left as a rule, then pump up exposure as much as a couple of stops in post. The sensor on the K5 really allows this with minimal noise.
BTW, in my previous post, I meant in Live View, not view finder. (sorry for the confusion)

So, technically speaking, do you spot meter on faces, check a few shots in live view to see what they look like, then bring down the EV Compensation to -1 or -2? Is that how you'd do it?

Just one thing I need to understand here is, when people say underexpose 1 to 2 stops (negative EV compensation), does this mean bringing down the EV to -1 or -2 or 1/3 = 1 stop. I don't use the EV compensation since like I said I usually look at a few shots on the live view screen to see how they turn out to help me set things up. So if I'd compensate to -2 EV and meter to the center of the meter and take a shot, I guess it would show underexposed in Live View, right? Since I would rely on the Live View screen to "meter" my shots it wouldn't be possible to "negative EV compensate" in my case! I'll try this approach next time I shoot. I can see how I could shoot at higher speeds using this trick now. Very interesting.

Oh and BTW, great shots indeed Mike. And thanks for your help too.
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