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01-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #31
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Last night -




















All the above were fixed Tungsten white balance - either set in camera or via PDCU in post processing
as the venue used quite a bit of red light (it's called the Red Light Cafe!)

The first posted photo using AWB was actually:


look carefully at the woman's cheek - there's quite a bit of unwanted noise - and when it was corrected to tungsten white balance in PDCU -
very unfortunately resulted in this:

very unflattering - so my post processing had to include blurring out the crud/noise.

Fortunately the in camera WB using tungsten did not have this problem.

01-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #32
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Pentax KX in very low red and blue LED light with ISO ranging from 4000 - 6400. I set AW to auto, exposed to the right a little and set the picture style to muted. Not too bad. There was a professional film crew there that was struggling too.








Last edited by john5100; 01-20-2013 at 05:43 PM.
01-20-2013, 08:45 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
Pentax KX in very low red and blue LED light with ISO ranging from 4000 - 6400. I set AW to auto, exposed to the right a little and set the picture style to muted. Not too bad. There was a professional film crew there that was struggling too.
Thanks for sharing John, very interesting!

This makes very good sense since the colors are strong and very likely to be saturated.

I remember you posting (#185 link) about this in the other thread Modern LED Stage Lighting & photography problems ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
and I did a post processing simulation to show the effect of using Muted Color with PDCU in Post #186

Did you have to do any other post processing corrections, please?

Thanks
01-21-2013, 12:30 AM   #34
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I did a little in light room. raised the whites and blacks and noise reduction. not much else.

01-21-2013, 12:33 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
I did a little in light room. raised the whites and blacks and noise reduction. not much else.
Thanks John...
so basically the regular brightness/contrast type stuff -
but most importantly despite the severe colored LED lights you did not have to do any color balance or corrections in post processing?

If so, that is really impressive.

Thank you
01-21-2013, 04:00 PM   #36
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Not really. Most of the adjustments were minor. Slight tint changes toward green, highlights brought back a little, blacks darkened and that's about it really.

Please forgive me sounding pompous; the pro concert photographers whom I shoot with all use full frames and I need to make my 2 humble cameras compete. Learning the Auto WB and Muted trick has given me an extra tool to compete with.

These two guys shoot for 6 different radio stations, shoot 2 or 3 shows per week, and one of them has shot for RollingStone. Given that I shoot in the pit with them regularly, my photos have to be as close as I can make them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidconger/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kirkstauffer/

To be honest, I've been very impressed with my K200d and my KX. My K200d handled the light well too except I couldn't raise the ISO enough for a fast shutter speed in small clubs. For large shows the K200d is fine.

Here's another one from the same club as the photos above but on a different day.

This is from another photographer's 5D MKII at the same show. Noticed how the colors are not much different. Detail is a lot better but the 5D with L glass is 5 or 6 times the money and is to be expected. http://www.flickr.com/photos/deborahlibby/8266418774/

Again, another one in worse light so instead of fighting the colors I enhanced them to create an artistic appearance.


And now a dark skinned musician in near total darkness. ISO8000 F2.8 1/50th so I then pushed it hard in LR4. I think by the time I got done with this one it was ISO 12,800 or higher.


I hope all this helps because sometimes it seems impossible.

Last edited by john5100; 01-21-2013 at 04:49 PM.
01-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
Not really. Most of the adjustments were minor. Slight tint changes toward green, highlights brought back a little, blacks darkened and that's about it really.
This is from another photographer's 5D MKII at the same show. Noticed how the colors are much different. Detail is but the 5D with L glass is 5 or 6 times the money and is to be expected. IMG_7767-Edit | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Good to know that Muted Color seems to work.

However it was very interesting on the other photographer's shot with the Canon 5D that you linked -
This is part of the exif data:
QuoteQuote:
Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Lens: EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
Image Date: 2012-12-09
Focal Length: 180mm
Aperture: f/3.2
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
ISO equiv: 2500
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Spot
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
GPS Coordinate: undefined, undefined
Software: Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4.2 (Macintosh)
Notice that it says AWB and shutter priority exposure - I wonder if the Canon 5D really handled that lighting with such ease to produce a shot that looks almost like natural light without too much cast?
01-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #38
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Here is the exif of mine in the same show. Correction, mine says WB manual. That must have been during my experimentation.
Exif | Trixie Whitley | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This one is SP with auto WB.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnrudolph/8399502475/meta/in/photostream


Last edited by john5100; 01-21-2013 at 06:03 PM.
01-21-2013, 06:31 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
Here is the exif of mine in the same show. Correction, mine says WB manual. That must have been during my experimentation.
Exif | Trixie Whitley | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
This one is SP with auto WB.
Exif | Future Twin @ Barboza | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Thanks.

Why I was surprised was the other photographer's shot looking almost natural light without heavy color cast -
as in your shots (and I have to assume it was even stronger -since you used Muted Color)

Perhaps the other photographer did some color corrections since the EXIF data of that shot says -
History Parameters converted from image/x-canon-cr2 to image/tiff, saved to new location
or just took that shot when the lights were not so strongly colored?

Thanks
01-25-2013, 02:49 PM   #40
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Can it get any darker?
well...
unfortunately yes -
when I started at the dark jazz club over three years ago there were 3 mini track spot lights -
then it went down to 2 - and has been that way for years - I learnt to cope with the lighting -
then last night -
yes, you guessed it it was down to a single mini spot!

not only that the remaining light was the furthest of the three positions
from the right side of the room where most of the off stage action takes place:

ISO5000; f/3.5, 1/6 sec; 18mm +0.7 comp
(the compensation I learnt here because of the difference between my K-x which I had used for over 3 years almost weekly at this venue and my new K-5 (original) metering at the lowest light level limits)
The light level is below the metering and the AF limits of the K-5
Meter segments:


Even the stage was no longer that bright:


hats were still worn...


from where I normally shoot from it was strongly against the light -


although I could shoot from the other side - the light modelling just was not as dramatic

although I do like this shot

So basically it was a pretty daunting challenge -
but the K-5 seem to sail through it all -
any failures were due to me,
rather than the camera.
(and, no, I am not going to show you the failures )


The most pleasing shots for me were those challenging off stage shots,
in comparison the on stage were like shooting fish in a barrel
(just a very dark one ):








01-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #41
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I shot a little local gig at a guitar shop last night. I shot mostly with my usual Tamron 28-75 2.8 but also brought the Rokinon 8mm fisheye for a few fun shots. I wanted to get in closer for the fisheye shots but they were filming for a webcast and I didn't want to get in the way so I couldn't get as close as I probably should have.








Last edited by mattb123; 05-08-2013 at 02:17 PM.
01-26-2013, 09:38 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattb123 Quote
I shot a little local gig at a guitar shop last night. I shot mostly with my usual Tamron 28-75 2.8 but also brought the Rokinon 8mm fisheye for a few fun shots. I wanted to get in closer for the fisheye shots but they were filming for a webcast and I didn't want to get in the way so I couldn't get as close as I probably should have.
Looking at you last pic just made me smile -
we all know microphones obviously are essential for the gigs -
but even though the artists know how to use the mics -
they aren't aware how the mics and their stands can get "in the way" for photos -
often I find myself dancing around as the artist without knowing
is playing peek-a-boo with my camera...

Last edited by UnknownVT; 01-26-2013 at 09:57 AM.
02-01-2013, 12:52 PM   #43
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Things are back to "normal" - one of the burnt out mini spot track-light bulbs had been replaced -

so in theory it should be twice as bright as last week
in comparison everything just seemed easier....

High contrast lighting
and hats...

but it is the lighting that makes the photos interesting (to me)

I really like this shot -

on the humble 50-200 kit zoom - which only got a very mediocre review at photozone.de













02-03-2013, 02:05 PM   #44
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I guess years of shooting at this low light venue helps when a special act comes to town -













Last edited by UnknownVT; 02-03-2013 at 02:18 PM.
02-08-2013, 02:18 PM   #45
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Used to think hats were a problem -


and faces in shadow/shade


and much brighter at stage center...


but it's exactly those "problems" that end up giving the interesting shots -








of course off stage shots are still dark and difficult -




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