K5 flash problem

lotech · 02-06-2013, 11:35 AM

Hi there,

I am using a Metz 50 AF-1 flash with my K5 and the 16-55 DA*, I got over exposure problem with it. Whenever I bounce the flash off the ceiling at an angle I got 2-3 stops over, but it is fine when tilt 90 degree up, also fine in direct flash, this happen in all auto modes, I've to re-shoot and override via compensation to get it right, I got this problem with off brand flash as well. As far as I experienced I find Pentax DSLR is quite weak at the flash control, easy to get over exposure at close range. The camera and the Lens have just been repaired by Pentax for AF problem, so I assume everything checked out, any comment ?

Update :

I just read a post on Dpreview about the same problem, it is confirmed a bug on the K5 causing this, but I already have the latest firmware on both unit, V1.14 on K5 and V3 on the Metz !

Last edited by lotech; 02-06-2013 at 11:46 AM. Reason: Update

**fs999** · 02-06-2013, 12:08 PM

Must use it in manual mode when you bounce...

lotech · 02-06-2013, 12:17 PM

That's a pity, for a camera that price, a sensor flash would have done a better job !

elliott · 02-06-2013, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by lotech

a sensor flash would have done a better job !

You mean the old "Auto" mode where the flashes had a thyristor? Those do work more consistently in some situations, since they are measuring the light at the moment, not measuring a lower powered pre-flash with the lens at a different aperture and then calculating what is needed for the real flash like P-TTL, E-TTL and i-TTL does. They do have their drawbacks too, of course, which is why they were replaced by TTL and later systems.

That said, a lot of people do bounce flash with P-TTL in full auto mode and it works fine, what kind of ceiling are you bouncing off of?

SOldBear · 02-06-2013, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by elliott

You mean the old "Auto" mode where the flashes had a thyristor?

Metz 50 AF-1 has p-TTL and manual modes only, no thyristor auto.

Originally posted by lotech

Whenever I bounce the flash off the ceiling at an angle I got 2-3 stops over, but it is fine when tilt 90 degree up, also fine in direct flash, this happen in all auto modes,...

Interesting. This is very similar to a problem of the old Metz 40MZ (all versions): overexposure in auto mode when the head is not in "direct" position. It was a bug in the flash.

elliott · 02-06-2013, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

Metz 50 AF-1 has p-TTL and manual modes only, no thyristor auto.

I know, that is what keeps me from buying one, I was just asking if that is what he meant by "sensor flash".

**Wingincamera** · 02-06-2013, 02:22 PM

You might be interested in this discussion?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/208119-k-5ii-p-ttl-overexposu...-analysis.html

lotech · 02-07-2013, 11:52 AM

Yes, 'sensor flash' is the old thyristor auto flash, no TTL.

Beside the over exposure bounce flash problem, the image also turn out warmer when shooting in a well lit room with the milky white diffuser cap on the flash, where the room lighting is warm day light LED, but when shooting without the diffuser the image stays neutral, and no difference when I turn off all room light. It seems that the flash does not control the output at all when bounce, so that when the output reduced by the diffuser room light takes over that's why warmer.

lotech · 02-20-2013, 10:18 AM

I just found a 'quick and dirty' workaround to my Metz 50 AF-1 flash, may also works with other similar flash. There is a push button at the side to unlock the flash head, also disengage auto zoom when tilt. There is a flaw in the design that, 50/50 chance the push button will jam in half way, and retain the auto zoom and exposure control even when tilt. By intentionally jamming the button, simply push the button and tilt the flash few times will do, the flash exposure will be under control ! this is definitely not a fix, but a temporary workaround to the problem, which Pentax has to do something about it.

02-06-2013, 11:35 AM	#1
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	K5 flash problem Hi there, I am using a Metz 50 AF-1 flash with my K5 and the 16-55 DA, I got over exposure problem with it. Whenever I bounce the flash off the ceiling at an angle I got 2-3 stops over, but it is fine when tilt 90 degree up, also fine in direct flash, this happen in all auto modes, I've to re-shoot and override via compensation to get it right, I got this problem with off brand flash as well. As far as I experienced I find Pentax DSLR is quite weak at the flash control, easy to get over exposure at close range. The camera and the Lens have just been repaired by Pentax for AF problem, so I assume everything checked out, any comment ? Update : I just read a post on Dpreview about the same problem, it is confirmed a bug on the K5 causing this, but I already have the latest firmware on both unit, V1.14 on K5 and V3 on the Metz ! Last edited by lotech; 02-06-2013 at 11:46 AM. Reason: Update*

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02-06-2013, 12:08 PM	#2
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,645	Must use it in manual mode when you bounce...

02-06-2013, 12:17 PM	#3
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	That's a pity, for a camera that price, a sensor flash would have done a better job !

02-06-2013, 12:29 PM	#4
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by lotech a sensor flash would have done a better job ! You mean the old "Auto" mode where the flashes had a thyristor? Those do work more consistently in some situations, since they are measuring the light at the moment, not measuring a lower powered pre-flash with the lens at a different aperture and then calculating what is needed for the real flash like P-TTL, E-TTL and i-TTL does. They do have their drawbacks too, of course, which is why they were replaced by TTL and later systems. That said, a lot of people do bounce flash with P-TTL in full auto mode and it works fine, what kind of ceiling are you bouncing off of?

02-06-2013, 12:45 PM	#5
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by elliott You mean the old "Auto" mode where the flashes had a thyristor? Metz 50 AF-1 has p-TTL and manual modes only, no thyristor auto. Originally posted by lotech Whenever I bounce the flash off the ceiling at an angle I got 2-3 stops over, but it is fine when tilt 90 degree up, also fine in direct flash, this happen in all auto modes,... Interesting. This is very similar to a problem of the old Metz 40MZ (all versions): overexposure in auto mode when the head is not in "direct" position. It was a bug in the flash.

02-06-2013, 12:51 PM	#6
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by SOldBear Metz 50 AF-1 has p-TTL and manual modes only, no thyristor auto. I know, that is what keeps me from buying one, I was just asking if that is what he meant by "sensor flash".

02-06-2013, 02:22 PM	#7
Wingincamera Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pine Haven, Wyoming Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,182	You might be interested in this discussion? https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/208119-k-5ii-p-ttl-overexposu...-analysis.html

02-07-2013, 11:52 AM	#8
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	Yes, 'sensor flash' is the old thyristor auto flash, no TTL. Beside the over exposure bounce flash problem, the image also turn out warmer when shooting in a well lit room with the milky white diffuser cap on the flash, where the room lighting is warm day light LED, but when shooting without the diffuser the image stays neutral, and no difference when I turn off all room light. It seems that the flash does not control the output at all when bounce, so that when the output reduced by the diffuser room light takes over that's why warmer.

02-20-2013, 10:18 AM	#9
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	I just found a 'quick and dirty' workaround to my Metz 50 AF-1 flash, may also works with other similar flash. There is a push button at the side to unlock the flash head, also disengage auto zoom when tilt. There is a flaw in the design that, 50/50 chance the push button will jam in half way, and retain the auto zoom and exposure control even when tilt. By intentionally jamming the button, simply push the button and tilt the flash few times will do, the flash exposure will be under control ! this is definitely not a fix, but a temporary workaround to the problem, which Pentax has to do something about it.