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02-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by valy Quote
But pattern moire can't be obtained, in the same conditions, with II also?
Not sure how i should respond but AA filter help against patern moire.

Moire Hunt with the Pentax K-5 IIs and K-5 II | Neocamera

One thing i'm curious about is what they mean with resolution in the end, they talk about sharpness and the contrast of the text and i fully agree with that but the normal version did capture the fine lines aswell just as good i think. Yes they look less sharp but the details are there so far i can see. Also look at the little tails of the letters and the horizantal stripe of the t and f.

Would love to see some resolution test chart because this is getting silly, looking for details you would never even see in the end image...

The biggest differnce i've seen between the two with an processed photo is with higher ISO.
Since the S version hardly gets any sharpening you also don't sharpen the noise so you get a cleaner image in the end.

02-13-2013, 02:10 AM   #32
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QuoteQuote:
Not sure how i should respond but AA filter help against patern moire.
I asked this because I can get beautiful moire with k100d (6mpx and kit lenses which should soften the details and should prevent such moire).

QuoteQuote:
The biggest differnce i've seen between the two with an processed photo is with higher ISO.
Since the S version hardly gets any sharpening you also don't sharpen the noise so you get a cleaner image in the end.
Actually this is my understanding also: details are in both II and IIs but with IIs you don't need to apply sharpen so no noise amplification. When there is no noise then IIs = II + sharp/contrast. In theory.

02-15-2013, 06:08 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Perhaps you should stop clinging on to the flawed notion that sharpening K-5 images can somehow come close to the output from the K-5IIs. Many K-5IIs users have already pointed out that there is definitely a noticeable difference in image sharpness but somehow you can't seem to accept it. Why should anyone provide you the images you want... maybe you ought to buy a K-5IIs of your own to realize what K-5IIs are already experiencing firsthand.
I agree with this 100% Creampuff, you really have to see the difference for yourself. The K5IIs is exceptionally good at capturing fine details especially if you make large prints like I do with specialised printing processes these details are worth a great deal.

I agree Moire certainly exists on the K5IIs - and more to the point Moire with a subject like this would still be a problem on the K5II:

Pentax K5IIs with the SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 @ f/5.6 - one of my studio assistants was standing in for a few test shots before the models arrived, and he happened to be wearing a shirt that was just perfect for causing moire.

Just because a camera has a Bayer AA filter it doesn't guarantee that you won't have to deal with Moire sooner or later. Some textiles seem designed for the express purpose of causing problems with digital sensors.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-15-2013 at 06:21 AM.
02-16-2013, 10:49 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I agree with this 100% Creampuff, you really have to see the difference for yourself. The K5IIs is exceptionally good at capturing fine details especially if you make large prints like I do with specialised printing processes these details are worth a great deal.
But like said, when you looked at edited images that put some effort in "input sharpening" (10 seconds of work) the difference are small.
I'm actually still waiting for you to point out some details that the normal version missed with those images and that is at 100% pixel peaking level so on a final image or print the difference is totally not see-able.

02-16-2013, 01:29 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But like said, when you looked at edited images that put some effort in "input sharpening" (10 seconds of work) the difference are small.
I'm actually still waiting for you to point out some details that the normal version missed with those images and that is at 100% pixel peaking level so on a final image or print the difference is totally not see-able.
Anvh... I respect your insight on many issues in the forum. My opinion on this moire issue is that the people like us are the ONLY ones who will zoom into an image - to the point of macular degeneration - to find a fault in a camera, lens, setting...etc. As a graphic artist, I can explain to a client what I've done, how I got there and how carefully I worked to assure success and they'll reply with "That's nice, can I borrow a pencil." Point being... most people on the other side of the lens (issue) don't think twice about minutia, won't notice it and only care about their 10,000 foot view of the product. Yet, we're vexed by things that require a microscope to reveal. I know that I concern myself about things like this fully realizing that if I go lookin' for trouble, I'm probably going to find it. Again, thanks for your insights. I learn a lot from you and others in this forum.

Last edited by SlamDesiAK; 02-16-2013 at 02:26 PM.
02-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I agree with this 100% Creampuff, you really have to see the difference for yourself. The K5IIs is exceptionally good at capturing fine details especially if you make large prints like I do with specialised printing processes these details are worth a great deal.

I agree Moire certainly exists on the K5IIs - and more to the point Moire with a subject like this would still be a problem on the K5II:

Pentax K5IIs with the SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 @ f/5.6 - one of my studio assistants was standing in for a few test shots before the models arrived, and he happened to be wearing a shirt that was just perfect for causing moire.

Just because a camera has a Bayer AA filter it doesn't guarantee that you won't have to deal with Moire sooner or later. Some textiles seem designed for the express purpose of causing problems with digital sensors.
Hey, Digitalis... I usually get the "Lurker" flag hanging in my face whilst checking out the forums from work (sans log-in) but, I thought I'd take a second to extend my appreciation of your valued comments and great images that you post. Thanks for your input.
02-16-2013, 02:14 PM   #37
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Pentax K5IIs

My experience with K5IIs

I have model K5IIs and I´am very happy with it. Very nice details, very little danger of moaré and super performance of SR. (Lightweight sensor without AA-filter). Link to the sample from A135/2,8, handheld 1/15, distance about 1,5 meter.
http://2i.sk/ea686b4192

The same test from DA 35/2,8, 1/15, distance about 1 m.
http://www.2i.sk/61ecd0fa29

Biggest problem is the quality of lenses, if you will take full advantage of this camera. You need only the better of best.
Hilda
02-16-2013, 02:27 PM   #38
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Hi Digitalis:

do you see moaré on this photos? (K5IIs, distance 3 m, daylight + thungsten, out of box without PP)
http://2i.sk/3f554963b0
http://2i.sk/29001c36e5

Hilda4sea

02-16-2013, 04:21 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
'm actually still waiting for you to point out some details that the normal version missed with those images and that is at 100% pixel peaking level so on a final image or print the difference is totally not see-able.
You still want me to hold your hand and show you the difference? i'm not your mother. Don't put the burden of proof on someone else - act like an adult and see it for yourself.

QuoteOriginally posted by hilda4sea Quote
do you see moaré on this photos?
No moire, though you chose subject matter that isn't likely to cause it. I know what will cause moire just by looking at the patterns in subject matter because of my extensive experience in working with high-end cameras without Bayer AA filters in them.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-17-2013 at 06:56 AM.
02-16-2013, 10:22 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
You still want me to your hand and show you the difference? i'm not your mother. Don't put the burden of proof on someone else - act like an adult and see it for yourself.
uhh... i'm not the one claiming that it has increased resolution and i've directly pointed out why and showed you proof of my claim.
You simply dispell those examples saying that you do see a differnce, but when i asked for more explaination as simple as to point out those differnce you see. You come with this excuse?

I don't understand why you're suggesting i'm the child here, while in all honesty this defence of yours here looks like a childish one to duck away from any responsability of yours.
02-16-2013, 10:25 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by hilda4sea Quote
Hi Digitalis:

do you see moaré on this photos? (K5IIs, distance 3 m, daylight + thungsten, out of box without PP)
http://2i.sk/3f554963b0
http://2i.sk/29001c36e5

Hilda4sea
With the photo of the clothing you see red and green patches on the clothing, i can make them more visiable if you like.
02-17-2013, 08:10 AM   #42
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Got the K5IIs.
02-17-2013, 09:10 AM   #43
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I will not say that the K5IIs is moaréless. Only is to say, that the moaré is only occasionaly iussue (not only by AA filterless camaras) for K5 IIs. If you will take a photos of fashion, the K5IIs is not the best choise. For everything else is a very good camera with fine resolution. Every time is better as K5.

Take a shots with AA filterless camera and with "oldtimer" lens is not very correct.
02-17-2013, 10:14 AM   #44
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I've been very pleased with my K5, taking it on backpacks and treks where I simply didn't want to carry the weight of my 645D and associated lenses. Still, IQ wise, there is really no comparison between the two but the K5 does very well with night sky/nightscape work. Hence, my dilema of upgrading to the IIs or not. I went to Digital Photography Review and Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! and downloaded the RAW files from the K5, K5IIs along with the same image files from the Canon 6D and Nikon D600. Although there were a few sections of the image where mild moire was introduced with the IIs, surprisingly, there were hints of moire in the same sections of the files of the other cameras, as well. Essentially, the moire issue, in my opinion, is a total non-issue for landscape/nature shooting...wedding dresses might be another problem. The surprising thing I found was how closely the IQ of the IIs held up against the Canon and Nikon, even when upresed to the same pixel width as the native files from the 6D and D600, particularly when comparing the detail of the threads/fabric weave on the DPReview studio scene. Carrying the scenario another step, I upsized the Pentax, Nikon and Canon files to create a 30x40 inch image. Even at that size the IIs image, compared well, if not perfectly, against the Nikon/Canon files. On canvas (most of my printing) at a normal viewing distance the typical person would not be able to tell the difference.

My K5 will be for sale and the IIs will be my new upgraded backup.
02-18-2013, 02:01 PM   #45
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How do the K5 and the normal MKII compare?
I've heard the later has a weaker filter, is that true?
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