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03-29-2013, 12:18 PM   #16
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@Jatrax: Ergonomics is very important. I have used many, many different cameras since I started off in photography properly, which was 1970 at Art College. The best "fit" I ever had was a 35mm Contax - a beautiful camera in every respect. In D-SLR I have used - as I said - full frame and aps-c; my preference is for APS-C as with many lenses it gives better reach; a well considered choice for wildlife photography, on foot, with changing and often very fleeting chances of shots. It works for me.

To reiterate, I still find that the thumb-grip on the K-5 IIs is not at all comfortable and the lower part of the ridge digs into the thumb-heel; it's just at the wrong angle. How Pentax could possibly get this wrong elludes me, as was not there when someone designed it. All other cameras, all makes, big or small, D-SLR I have found reasonably ergonomic, and even little "Bridge" and smaller "pocket snappers" I have found to be relatively easy to grip. This has nothing to do with my hands, which are not deformed, are average size and used to operating all sorts. I understand your fervent resolution to defend your beloved Pentax, but I can only speak as I find. This camera needs a redesign and I am somewhat disapointed with the way it operates/feels; especially after reading reviews which seem to omit any practical factors in favour of "results" only!

Pentax, please contact me to let me know if something can be done. I really want to use a K-5 IIs but mine will go back and leave a sour taste in my mouth if this issue is ignored! The uncomfortable feel of the thumb-grip and the random "freeze" issue is just too much; I can grin and bear the former if Pentax promises me that they'll give me a replacement when a redesigned body comes out*, but the latter is a flaming pain and defeats the object of having a lightweight, fast AF camera for capturing those fleeting moments. :-(
*otherwise refund may be the only sensible option and carry on with the "other" barand, which is not what I'd hoped for as the APS-C IIs with no anti-aliasing filter idea is what I wanted.

03-29-2013, 02:11 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
How Pentax could possibly get this wrong elludes me,
Considering that one of the MOST liked aspects of the k-5 is the wonderful ergonomics I have to object to that statement. If it does not fit your hands, well too bad, that's why they make other brands. Send it back and get something you like.

But posting here or anywhere else that they 'got it wrong' just because you don't like it is just plain silly. Pentax did not get it wrong, they got exactly what they wanted. And it happens to fit a great many people. I am sorry it does not fit your hands. Please return it and get something you will be happy with.
QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
Pentax, please contact me to let me know if something can be done.
ROFLMAO. So you want Pentax to redesign the body so it fits YOUR hands in total disregard to anyone who actually likes it that way? And then send you a free replacement after they redesign it to fit you? Doesn't that seem a bit egotistical?

If you really want to keep the camera and it really fits so bad then check this out maybe it will help: Photography - the future needs fixing - sugru
03-29-2013, 03:08 PM   #18
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K5-IIs Ergonomics

Jatrax's Reply: "Considering that one of the MOST liked aspects of the k-5 is the wonderful ergonomics I have to object to that statement. If it does not fit your hands, well too bad, that's why they make other brands. Send it back and get something you like."

If you read my posts properly you'd see that I thought I would like this camera after several reviews, but they neglected to mention points like "grip".

"But posting here or anywhere else that they 'got it wrong' just because you don't like it is just plain silly." and "ROFLMAO. So you want Pentax to redesign the body so it fits YOUR hands in total disregard to anyone who actually likes it that way? And then send you a free replacement after they redesign it to fit you? Doesn't that seem a bit egotistical? "

Where does one start? "Egotistical" It appears that the ego here is not with me for I am not telling other forum users that they are wrong, as you appear to be doing, just stating the facts about a camera as I find them. To call me egotistical is like the pot calling the kettle black. "ROFLMAO" = Rolls Over Floor Laughing... ???" How childish and churlish, as well as trying to debase other people's posts and opinions. Tell me, are you a very young teenager?

Let me make a point to you, again: I have tried many different cameras and been able to use them "reasonably comfortably", my hands are "quite normal" in shape and size, the camera's grip is not one that the hand fits to without having to hold it in what I'd call an "abnormal" position.

Furthermore, if any camera manufacturer got it right first time then all we'd ever see is an upgrade of Sensor, maybe slight changes in electronic functions and of course lenses; as quality and production methods improved. The body would remain the same. Take further examples of reviews of the new Pentax Q-01, the square block camera. This had some pretty mixed reviews and most reviewers have commented on the chunky grip and feel. This only scores "7.6" on the Pentax Forums for "Ergonomics". The K-5 scores an amzing 10 out of 10 whilst the K-5 IIs only gets barely scrapes past a " 9 " because one reviewer only gave it 8 and the others all steamed in with full 10's; much the same way as most people review on shopping sites, hastily and with either a big plus or a big minus and not much inbetween. It maybe the case that many people do not fully understand what the word ergonomics means and that it does actually apply to "comfort" as well as other useage terms.

Regardless of your disdain that anyone should have an opinion, let alone one that is different to yours, I shall reitterate that in my opinion this camera body needs a redesign; not to mention the "freeze" problems that other people apart from are having: and I wonder if any of them hastily awarded a 10 fro ergonomics before they discovered the "freeze" problems or the "mirror jam" problems?

If all I get on this Forum are negative and abusive replies like yours, and no offer of help from Pentax, then I may well return it and go back to Nikon; as they make a similar model.... oh that reminds me.... on my old Nikon "full frame" it used to have a Depth of field" button in just the right place, so where's the DoF button on the Pentax?
03-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
Ergonomics is very important.
QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
what the word ergonomics means and that it does actually apply to "comfort" as well as other useage terms.
You are spot on in emphasizing the importance of ergonomics, especially in a tool that is held mainly in one's hands. Whether Pentax opts to redesign the body for its next generation remains to be seen.

For me, the design of the K-7 was an important factor that drew me to the brand. I had tried several comparable cameras in other brands; after holding the K-7 and figuring out the main controls and menu options within a couple of minutes in the retail store (without needing to refer to the manual) , I realized this was the one for me. I find the K-5 comfortable and intuitive, and get a sense of "ahhh, this is my camera" every time I pick it up. On a related note, I have several hand tools that bring the same satisfaction. However, I understand that comfort is a personal matter and that designers might not be able to accommodate all potential users in their design and layout.

Have you had a chance yet to contact your dealer or Pentax to discuss the issues? The freezing problem should be covered under warranty. As for the grip, after having used the camera and finding it uncomfortable, you may be able to get a refund from your dealer if you are within the return period.

QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
where's the DoF button on the Pentax?
The DoF preview is actuated by a third position on the on-off switch. When the camera is ON, pull the switch towards the rear of the camera; the aperture will stop down to provide a DoF preview.

- Craig

03-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
on my old Nikon "full frame" it used to have a Depth of field" button in just the right place, so where's the DoF button on the Pentax?
It is on the shutter button / on/off switch, just go past 'on' there you go.

QuoteQuote:
If all I get on this Forum are negative and abusive replies like yours, and no offer of help from Pentax, then I may well return it and go back to Nikon;
Well I don't think my reply was negative or abusive. I politely suggested that if you don't think the camera will fit your hands then you should return it. And what if I may ask without being accused of being abusive would you like Pentax to do for you?

QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
I wonder if any of them hastily awarded a 10 fro ergonomics before they discovered the "freeze" problems or the "mirror jam" problems?
What does the camera freezing up have to do with ergonomics?

QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
Regardless of your disdain that anyone should have an opinion,
You are most certainly entitled to your opinion I merely felt (and still feel) that it is highly amusing that your opinion is that Pentax should redesign a camera to fit you. I stay with Pentax because it does fit my hand as do others. I also suggested rather politely that if it doesn't fit your hands then IMHO you should send it back. Using a tool, any tool, that fits your hands well is a joy and using one that doesn't is often miserable. And there are lots of options so why stick with something you obviously do not like?
QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
the camera's grip is not one that the hand fits to without having to hold it in what I'd call an "abnormal" position.
And again I repeat, it must fit a lot of other people since that is always one of the positives mentioned so why should Pentax redesign it to fit you?

QuoteQuote:
Furthermore, if any camera manufacturer got it right first time then all we'd ever see is an upgrade of Sensor, maybe slight changes in electronic functions and of course lenses; as quality and production methods improved. The body would remain the same.
You do realize that the body in the k-5II is the same as the k-5 and the k-7 which was introduced in 2009. So the k-5II is the third camera model to use the same body design, only changes in sensor and other internals. Looks to me as if Pentax thinks they got it right since they do not seem very eager to make any changes to it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
Tell me, are you a very young teenager?
I wish..

QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
"Egotistical" It appears that the ego here is not with me for I am not telling other forum users that they are wrong, as you appear to be doing,
Well yes you did. You said "Pentax got it wrong", yet the ergonomics are considered by many to be one of the best points of the camera. And no I did not tell you that you were wrong, I noted that everyone's hands are different and if it doesn't fit yours then you should return it and get something that works for you. And I did not even come close to calling you egotistical, I asked if you might not consider thinking that a major camera company would redesign a camera just to fit you to be egotistical. If you don't like the grip, fine that is your opinion. But are you seriously thinking Pentax is going to redesign it for you, and then send you the new one when they are done?
QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
but they neglected to mention points like "grip".
Maybe because everyone else likes it?
03-30-2013, 09:08 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old_Taoist Quote
@Jatrax: Ergonomics is very important. I have used many, many different cameras since I started off in photography properly, which was 1970 at Art College. The best "fit" I ever had was a 35mm Contax - a beautiful camera in every respect. In D-SLR I have used - as I said - full frame and aps-c; my preference is for APS-C as with many lenses it gives better reach; a well considered choice for wildlife photography, on foot, with changing and often very fleeting chances of shots. It works for me.

To reiterate, I still find that the thumb-grip on the K-5 IIs is not at all comfortable and the lower part of the ridge digs into the thumb-heel; it's just at the wrong angle. How Pentax could possibly get this wrong elludes me, as was not there when someone designed it. All other cameras, all makes, big or small, D-SLR I have found reasonably ergonomic, and even little "Bridge" and smaller "pocket snappers" I have found to be relatively easy to grip. This has nothing to do with my hands, which are not deformed, are average size and used to operating all sorts. I understand your fervent resolution to defend your beloved Pentax, but I can only speak as I find. This camera needs a redesign and I am somewhat disapointed with the way it operates/feels; especially after reading reviews which seem to omit any practical factors in favour of "results" only!

Pentax, please contact me to let me know if something can be done. I really want to use a K-5 IIs but mine will go back and leave a sour taste in my mouth if this issue is ignored! The uncomfortable feel of the thumb-grip and the random "freeze" issue is just too much; I can grin and bear the former if Pentax promises me that they'll give me a replacement when a redesigned body comes out*, but the latter is a flaming pain and defeats the object of having a lightweight, fast AF camera for capturing those fleeting moments. :-(
*otherwise refund may be the only sensible option and carry on with the "other" barand, which is not what I'd hoped for as the APS-C IIs with no anti-aliasing filter idea is what I wanted.
C'mon man,

Didn't you hold the camera for awhile or try a K7/K5 before purchasing? When buying guitars, I make sure the neck is comfortable to the hand. If it isn't, I don't buy.

As much add I wanted the PZ-1, the grip was the deciding factor for not purchasing even though it was better than my LX electronically.

Last edited by tabl10s; 03-30-2013 at 10:14 AM.
04-01-2013, 11:33 AM   #22
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So, just with an update to the original topic - I shipped the K5 IIs to Pentax's repair facility in Chandler, AZ. About two days after FedEx reported it was delivered, I got a phone call from the technician there, and we had about a half hour conversation about the issue. They were not having any success replicating it, and were about to ship it back to me with a firmware update only.

Since the "freezing" and blue/purple lines on images tended to occur while shooting outdoors, in cold (35 degrees F or colder) weather, and since the camera was in AZ, where certainly it's just a bit warmer, the tech agreed to place the camera in the refrigerator overnight. Sure enough, when they tested the next morning, they had the same problem I did.

They are now replacing the camera, much to my relief.
04-01-2013, 11:53 AM   #23
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Although we don't like to experience these issues in the first place, it's good to hear that the technician made an effort to pursue the problem. Hope your replacement body is trouble free! Thanks for giving us an update.

- Craig

04-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by JBWPhoto Quote
Since the "freezing" and blue/purple lines on images tended to occur while shooting outdoors, in cold (35 degrees F or colder) weather, and since the camera was in AZ, where certainly it's just a bit warmer, the tech agreed to place the camera in the refrigerator overnight. Sure enough, when they tested the next morning, they had the same problem I did.
CRIS should get a big 'well done' for that! We always hear all the bad reports, glad you could tell us when they did it right as well.

Also hope the replacement is trouble free.
04-01-2013, 01:14 PM   #25
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I've never heard of a common repair center going for the freezer to replicate a problem, that shows some serious pride in their work!
04-01-2013, 01:57 PM   #26
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Yes, props to the repair center, although I'll note that I really had to push them to go the extra mile. Lesson: Don't just mail off your camera and wait - call and email and get someone on the phone so that you can fully explain the issues, if they're not obvious.
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