A remark on comparing JPGs and RAWs with the same settings:
German ColorFoto (1/2013) wrote that Pentax trimmed the K-5 II(s) to deliver more contrasty images (at least up to ISO 1600).
Standard signal processing was found to be more aggressive compared to previous models (like the K-5).
Some speculate that even RAW files might be affected.
So, the same settings will not guarantee the same image processing (when e.g. comparing K-5 and K-5 II images).
The same might be true in a comparison between the K-5 II and the K-5 IIs (the firmware also differs).
Quote: you have to sharpen every shot taken with a camera equipped with a Bayer AA filter - to counter the blurring caused by it. this doesn't mean that cameras with AA filter have greater sharpening latitude. If you are using a high resolution lens capable of resolving 80Lp/mm and beyond the need for sharpening is reduced.
Probably, the output from all cameras will profit from some sharpening.
However, the optimal parameters won't be the same.
The "magnitude" for the K-5 II would be higher than that for the K-5 IIs (and could result in an over-sharpened image there).
In this sense, the latitude (to apply a reasonable amount of sharpening) differs.
Using a "better" lens might also increase sharpness to more desirable levels.
So, for a meaningful comparison, one should choose a reasonable starting point:
Choose optimal - and therefore different - settings for both cameras.
The relevant differences may be revealed after this procedure.
This approach might affect e.g. noise as you assert that
Quote: [...] Sharpening always makes noise much more apparent [...]
However, there are additional aspects:
The birefringent crystals do not only "blur" the picture, they also have (frequency dependent) optical properties.
These could also modify the final picture.
Some claim that e.g. PF, CA and UV/IR properties change in a noteable way.
Quote: [...] those details lost to AA filter blurring, camera shake, or by simply being out of focus can not be recovered. [...] details at or approaching the Nyquist limit on the K5II will be attenuated by the Bayer AA filter - this does not happen with the K5IIs [...]
The question is: Which and how much information is lost - if at all.
Do MTF values drop markedly before the Nyquist limit?
How "strong" is the "AA-filter" in the K-5 (II)?
Quote: [...] The best and only way to test two cameras is to use the same lens [...]
Agreed. The purpose of the question ("What is the variance in using different samples of the same lens") was to classify the result of "8%".
Originally posted by Chris Mak - What is the purpose of trying to prove, that the filterless K5IIs does not produce images with more detail, or that the same detail can also be achieved with capture sharpening/deconvolution/de-blurring, if you do not have any intention of ever buying one?
-looking for ways to bide your time until the k3 is released
-can't stand the thought that the k5 may not be the best pentax camera around anymore
- Should people be upset if an "AA-filterless" camera is sharper?
normally not, but you should be if you:
-hate pixel peepers that hunt for superior detail at 100%
-hunt for moire or false colors at 100% yourself all the time
- What and how to compare, and are K5IIs owners, and non-owners on equal footing?
not counting those that only just received the K5IIs (they may suffer from seeing it all a bit tóó rosy)
-owners have a simple benefit: they actually háve the camera that they are judging
- How subtle is the difference?
-related to the measure charts: it appears somewhere around 8%
-related to the satisfaction of users: it appears to be substantially higher.
- What about noise?
does the K5IIs generate a lot of noise?
-in the fora, yes, lots of noise
-in the images, less than the k5, particularly at 400/800 iso - ...
The thread is devoted to the comparison between the K-5 II and the K-5 IIs.
The question is posed whether image quality differs significantly.
What I dislike(d) in this context are unfounded and/or overexagerated statements.
- Sharpening is required to define a reasonable starting point (see above). More detail could be there (or not).
A new model with increased number of MPs will most likely be a more significant improvement over the K-5 II than the K-5 IIs [if detail/sharpness/... (=pixel-peeping qualities) are concerned].
However, the (very similar and very good) image quality of the K-5, the K-5 II and the K-5 IIs will not be altered by this.
- One question is whether and to which amount this ("sharper") really is true. Imho, a lot of exorbitant (maybe even untrue) claims circulate.
- K-5 IIs owners have made their decision and can be happy with it - as K-5, K-5 II, ... owners can be.
K-5 IIs owners who also possess a K-5 II even could contribute in more detail to the discussion.
- Does the difference scale with the satisfaction of the users?
- According to DxOMark there is no relevant discrepancy between the K-5, the K-5 II and the K-5 IIs.