Fuel on the fire: Comparing the K-5 and DP2 Merrill

panoguy · 04-01-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by DavidOBryan

Thanks to this thread I bought a used DP2M. Still waiting for it to arrive.

Got any more thoughts and/or pics you care to share?

Congrats and enjoy! Stock up on even more batteries (these have worked well) and really big SD cards (I filled a 16GB!) if you intend to go out for a day with it.

As for pics... I'm exploring the "Monochrome" processing mode in Sigma Photo Pro 5.5:
(Not as fun or diverse as Nik Silver Efex, but pretty handy)

panoguy · 04-01-2013, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by EchoOscar

Umm, not quite. K5 and D7000 maybe, but more like a55, not a77. The a77 has the same 24mp sensor used in NEX-7.

Aha, thanks! I couldn't remember which was a pair in that category, the "5" or "7."
Makes sense from the Sony perspective (5-series uses one sensor, the 7-series uses another... wait, is Sony ripping off BMW?)

eliallan · 04-05-2013, 12:27 PM

The Merill looks very good to me, but I can't stand the Sigma software. To the point that its a deal breaker.

panoguy · 04-06-2013, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by eliallan

The Merill looks very good to me, but I can't stand the Sigma software. To the point that its a deal breaker.

No getting around the ugly fact that only the Sigma software can process the Merrill raw files (well, Iridient Developer can as well, but to me it has an even worse UI), and that it requires a pretty robust computer to do it quickly.

Originally posted by DavidOBryan

You can batch convert the images to jpegs or tiffs and not even fool with it after that.

I simply adjust the white balance and add the lens corrections (CA & distortion) in Sigma Photo Pro, then save as 16-bit TIFFs to further process the files in Adobe Camera Raw. In theory, the 16-bit files can hold more information than the raw files anyway, and from what I've seen there's still an amazing amount of highlight and color detail to be extracted in the TIFF files! It seems most people work this way...

normhead · 04-06-2013, 07:55 AM

So, do you have a conclusion...like I would use this camera instead of a K-5 in these circumstances..

1.
2.
3.

?

k100d · 04-07-2013, 10:55 AM

good job mark! funny i stumbled on this thread minutes before i was going to click the order button

panoguy · 04-09-2013, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by normhead

So, do you have a conclusion...like I would use this camera instead of a K-5 in these circumstances..

1.
2.
3.

?

Well, let me see (and this is assuming I am already set to shoot at 30mm and ISO100):

1. Static scenes and landscapes with lots of detail that I want to keep (branches, buildings, etc.) - it beats the K-5 here.
2. When I want to carry something compact, but have lots of time to shoot things from #1 (the Q is even more compact, and much faster, so it comes along for "people" shots)
3. Bright colours or difficult to capture colours (like the mineral room at the ROM). I'm still amazed at how neutrals can be problematic with the Sigma, yet more "dynamic colors" are so much crisper and authentic compared to the K-5 without much post. Hard to explain fully... but imagine fall colours on a sunny day, or reflections in water.

I've gotten into the habit of carrying the K-5 with a nice prime (usually the 35mm Macro or 15mm Limited or FA77) and I put the Sigma in the bottom of the holster bag... just in case I run into any of those situations where it sings. It's nice to have both!

Last edited by panoguy; 04-09-2013 at 08:29 AM.

panoguy · 04-09-2013, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by DavidOBryan

Do you have standard settings you use or do you go through each pic individually?

Considering I haven't had more than 30 or so photos to go through from a single day, they are pretty much individually adjusted. (I should add here that a recent job (w/ the K-5) required processing 650 images in a few days, so maybe 30 isn't much to me!) However, I do have a preset for "Landscape" color mode, "0" luminance noise reduction (Photoshop and Nik are much better for treating luminance noise), and "Use lens profile" for CA correction (except that doesn't always "stick" in the settings... weird). Oh, and the nice thing is that the Sigma software remembers the colorspace, format and bit-depth of your last saved image, so every time I go to Save Image As..., it's already an AdobeRGB 16-bit TIFF.

Originally posted by k100d

good job mark! funny i stumbled on this thread minutes before i was going to click the order button

And did you click, or did I dissuade you? Either way, it would be good to know...

normhead · 04-09-2013, 09:26 AM

Hmmmm, sounds like something to have in the camera bag, but the initial response from the wife is not good. What is with those wives anyway?

panoguy · 04-09-2013, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Hmmmm, sounds like something to have in the camera bag, but the initial response from the wife is not good. What is with those wives anyway?

They "keep us out of trouble," at least that's the excuse I've heard over and over.

Why don't you two make a trip down the "big smoke" on the 21st of this month and join us for the Cherry Blossom blooming in High Park? Bring a couple of spare SD cards and you can both try it out, then "pixel-peep" later?
Any later in the spring and I'd rather be up where you are, than down here...

normhead · 04-09-2013, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by panoguy

They "keep us out of trouble," at least that's the excuse I've heard over and over.

Why don't you two make a trip down the "big smoke" on the 21st of this month and join us for the Cherry Blossom blooming in High Park? Bring a couple of spare SD cards and you can both try it out, then "pixel-peep" later?
Any later in the spring and I'd rather be up where you are, than down here...

I'm thinking of it, but the stars have to align for us... (as in if the black flies are out, everyone will want to go and stay in Tess' son's place for a week, until they thin out a bit, but the bug stars have to align.)

k100d · 04-13-2013, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by panoguy

And did you click, or did I dissuade you? Either way, it would be good to know...

just picked it up yesterday ... it definitely is an interesting camera, i don't think i could ever use it as a primary camera, esp as the X100 excels in so many more situations and is much more point and shoot

k100d · 04-13-2013, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by k100d

just picked it up yesterday ... it definitely is an interesting camera, i don't think i could ever use it as a primary camera, esp as the X100 excels in so many more situations and is much more point and shoot

i put my comments about the camera here
Rangefinderforum.com - View Single Post - Initial impressions Sigma dp2m

panoguy · 04-13-2013, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by k100d

just picked it up yesterday ... it definitely is an interesting camera, i don't think i could ever use it as a primary camera, esp as the X100 excels in so many more situations and is much more point and shoot

Originally posted by k100d

i put my comments about the camera here
Rangefinderforum.com - View Single Post - Initial impressions Sigma dp2m

Yep, we're pretty much on the same page (except I have no Fuji to fall back on, only a Q or the K-5). You can see I bought a Franiec grip for mine (what a lifesaver!), and I shoot almost exclusively at ISO 100 because of that shadow noise creeping in at 200 and up (which is kinda crazy). I have no idea what the "base ISO" is supposed to be...

As far as battery life, get thee to Amazon and order these Wasabis from Blue Nook. I got the 2+1 deal, which means I go out to shoot with 5 batteries! Shipping to Canada takes a while, but they last longer than the two OEM batteries in the box.

I'm also trying to figure out the metering, and so far I'm just using "evaluative" with exposure comp to get where I want. Hard to break the "protect the highlights" habit from the K-5, where I can bring the shadows up without drama.

k100d · 04-13-2013, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by panoguy

As far as battery life, get thee to Amazon and order these Wasabis from Blue Nook. I got the 2+1 deal, which means I go out to shoot with 5 batteries! Shipping to Canada takes a while, but they last longer than the two OEM batteries in the box.

i was looking into those batteries too! i guess i should just order them up since the included batteries are so weak
i'm on the fence about the grip i think i can manage for now without it

04-09-2013, 08:28 AM	#83
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by DavidOBryan Do you have standard settings you use or do you go through each pic individually? Considering I haven't had more than 30 or so photos to go through from a single day, they are pretty much individually adjusted. (I should add here that a recent job (w/ the K-5) required processing 650 images in a few days, so maybe 30 isn't much to me!) However, I do have a preset for "Landscape" color mode, "0" luminance noise reduction (Photoshop and Nik are much better for treating luminance noise), and "Use lens profile" for CA correction (except that doesn't always "stick" in the settings... weird). Oh, and the nice thing is that the Sigma software remembers the colorspace, format and bit-depth of your last saved image, so every time I go to Save Image As..., it's already an AdobeRGB 16-bit TIFF. Originally posted by k100d good job mark! funny i stumbled on this thread minutes before i was going to click the order button And did you click, or did I dissuade you? Either way, it would be good to know... Last edited by panoguy; 04-09-2013 at 11:09 AM.

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04-01-2013, 11:50 AM	#76
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by DavidOBryan Thanks to this thread I bought a used DP2M. Still waiting for it to arrive. Got any more thoughts and/or pics you care to share? Congrats and enjoy! Stock up on even more batteries (these have worked well) and really big SD cards (I filled a 16GB!) if you intend to go out for a day with it. As for pics... I'm exploring the "Monochrome" processing mode in Sigma Photo Pro 5.5: (Not as fun or diverse as Nik Silver Efex, but pretty handy)

04-01-2013, 11:57 AM	#77
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by EchoOscar Umm, not quite. K5 and D7000 maybe, but more like a55, not a77. The a77 has the same 24mp sensor used in NEX-7. Aha, thanks! I couldn't remember which was a pair in that category, the "5" or "7." Makes sense from the Sony perspective (5-series uses one sensor, the 7-series uses another... wait, is Sony ripping off BMW?)

04-05-2013, 12:27 PM	#78
eliallan Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 43	The Merill looks very good to me, but I can't stand the Sigma software. To the point that its a deal breaker.

04-06-2013, 07:32 AM	#79
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by eliallan The Merill looks very good to me, but I can't stand the Sigma software. To the point that its a deal breaker. No getting around the ugly fact that only the Sigma software can process the Merrill raw files (well, Iridient Developer can as well, but to me it has an even worse UI), and that it requires a pretty robust computer to do it quickly. Originally posted by DavidOBryan You can batch convert the images to jpegs or tiffs and not even fool with it after that. I simply adjust the white balance and add the lens corrections (CA & distortion) in Sigma Photo Pro, then save as 16-bit TIFFs to further process the files in Adobe Camera Raw. In theory, the 16-bit files can hold more information than the raw files anyway, and from what I've seen there's still an amazing amount of highlight and color detail to be extracted in the TIFF files! It seems most people work this way...

04-06-2013, 07:55 AM	#80
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	So, do you have a conclusion...like I would use this camera instead of a K-5 in these circumstances.. 1. 2. 3. ?

04-07-2013, 10:55 AM	#81
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	good job mark! funny i stumbled on this thread minutes before i was going to click the order button

04-09-2013, 08:21 AM	#82
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by normhead So, do you have a conclusion...like I would use this camera instead of a K-5 in these circumstances.. 1. 2. 3. ? Well, let me see (and this is assuming I am already set to shoot at 30mm and ISO100): 1. Static scenes and landscapes with lots of detail that I want to keep (branches, buildings, etc.) - it beats the K-5 here. 2. When I want to carry something compact, but have lots of time to shoot things from #1 (the Q is even more compact, and much faster, so it comes along for "people" shots) 3. Bright colours or difficult to capture colours (like the mineral room at the ROM). I'm still amazed at how neutrals can be problematic with the Sigma, yet more "dynamic colors" are so much crisper and authentic compared to the K-5 without much post. Hard to explain fully... but imagine fall colours on a sunny day, or reflections in water. I've gotten into the habit of carrying the K-5 with a nice prime (usually the 35mm Macro or 15mm Limited or FA77) and I put the Sigma in the bottom of the holster bag... just in case I run into any of those situations where it sings. It's nice to have both! Last edited by panoguy; 04-09-2013 at 08:29 AM.

04-09-2013, 09:26 AM	#84
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	Hmmmm, sounds like something to have in the camera bag, but the initial response from the wife is not good. What is with those wives anyway?

04-09-2013, 11:09 AM	#85
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by normhead Hmmmm, sounds like something to have in the camera bag, but the initial response from the wife is not good. What is with those wives anyway? They "keep us out of trouble," at least that's the excuse I've heard over and over. Why don't you two make a trip down the "big smoke" on the 21st of this month and join us for the Cherry Blossom blooming in High Park? Bring a couple of spare SD cards and you can both try it out, then "pixel-peep" later? Any later in the spring and I'd rather be up where you are, than down here...

04-09-2013, 11:30 AM	#86
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,448	Originally posted by panoguy They "keep us out of trouble," at least that's the excuse I've heard over and over. Why don't you two make a trip down the "big smoke" on the 21st of this month and join us for the Cherry Blossom blooming in High Park? Bring a couple of spare SD cards and you can both try it out, then "pixel-peep" later? Any later in the spring and I'd rather be up where you are, than down here... I'm thinking of it, but the stars have to align for us... (as in if the black flies are out, everyone will want to go and stay in Tess' son's place for a week, until they thin out a bit, but the bug stars have to align.)

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04-13-2013, 10:16 AM	#87
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by panoguy And did you click, or did I dissuade you? Either way, it would be good to know... just picked it up yesterday ... it definitely is an interesting camera, i don't think i could ever use it as a primary camera, esp as the X100 excels in so many more situations and is much more point and shoot

04-13-2013, 10:41 AM	#88
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by k100d just picked it up yesterday ... it definitely is an interesting camera, i don't think i could ever use it as a primary camera, esp as the X100 excels in so many more situations and is much more point and shoot i put my comments about the camera here Rangefinderforum.com - View Single Post - Initial impressions Sigma dp2m

04-13-2013, 11:04 AM	#89
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by k100d just picked it up yesterday ... it definitely is an interesting camera, i don't think i could ever use it as a primary camera, esp as the X100 excels in so many more situations and is much more point and shoot Originally posted by k100d i put my comments about the camera here Rangefinderforum.com - View Single Post - Initial impressions Sigma dp2m Yep, we're pretty much on the same page (except I have no Fuji to fall back on, only a Q or the K-5). You can see I bought a Franiec grip for mine (what a lifesaver!), and I shoot almost exclusively at ISO 100 because of that shadow noise creeping in at 200 and up (which is kinda crazy). I have no idea what the "base ISO" is supposed to be... As far as battery life, get thee to Amazon and order these Wasabis from Blue Nook. I got the 2+1 deal, which means I go out to shoot with 5 batteries! Shipping to Canada takes a while, but they last longer than the two OEM batteries in the box. I'm also trying to figure out the metering, and so far I'm just using "evaluative" with exposure comp to get where I want. Hard to break the "protect the highlights" habit from the K-5, where I can bring the shadows up without drama.

04-13-2013, 06:16 PM	#90
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by panoguy As far as battery life, get thee to Amazon and order these Wasabis from Blue Nook. I got the 2+1 deal, which means I go out to shoot with 5 batteries! Shipping to Canada takes a while, but they last longer than the two OEM batteries in the box. i was looking into those batteries too! i guess i should just order them up since the included batteries are so weak i'm on the fence about the grip i think i can manage for now without it