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05-12-2013, 03:21 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
This thread is a bit of a revelation. I'm very happy with my K5 for handling and speed, but the AF leaves much to be desired. I shoot with a DA*300, birds and wildlife, and am throwing too many away due to oof. Anyone have experience with this combined with the IIs, compared to the K5?

I was thinking of getting something in the fall, but don't like paying new released prices for things, which would put my next body purchase into this time next year. Unless I buy an IIs.
I too have been waiting for an upgrade in AF, but everything I have read the tracking abilities are the same for the K-5 and K-5ii so we will have to wait for the K-3

05-12-2013, 05:01 PM   #77
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Ok, I tried LR4.4 with settings for web posting and used Photobucket as the source for the photo below. Resized to 1024 so that it is accepted here and exposure upped a wee bit but other than that nothing by me.



And here is a 100% crop of a portion of that image, with the same process to generate it in LR4.4 - I specifically made certain that Sharpening was set to 0 in LR.


I've used the 35/2.4, 50/1.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Tamron 10-24, and Tamron 70-200 on the K-5IIs so far. Lots with the Tamrons (a baby shower and I needed wide and soccer and I needed long) and the Sigma. The Tamron 70-200 is my main issue. No adjustments with the IIs, absolutely razor sharp images as long as I was stable and the shutter speed was high. It is simply outstanding. I've tried close focus - excellent. Low light focus - outstanding. Long distances - stellar. Lock on in nearly no light without AF light. And it gets even better because it a) takes my K-5 grip, b) takes my D-Li90 batteries, c) has the same placement of all controls, d) has the same menu (mostly), and e) has the same outstanding ergonomics. I just do not understand folks that say that its little or no different from the K-5.

Last edited by Docrwm; 05-12-2013 at 06:19 PM.
05-13-2013, 11:02 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I just do not understand folks that say that its little or no different from the K-5.
I do. We spent all our "crazy cash" on lenses and compact cameras... nothing left for an upgrade.
05-13-2013, 11:09 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I do. We spent all our "crazy cash" on lenses and compact cameras... nothing left for an upgrade.
Stop spending!

05-13-2013, 11:54 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I do. We spent all our "crazy cash" on lenses and compact cameras... nothing left for an upgrade.
TRUE!

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Stop spending!
And...how does one do that?
(there is a reason I don't use my equipment in my sig-line)
That has got to count for something!
05-13-2013, 12:10 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
This thread is a bit of a revelation. I'm very happy with my K5 for handling and speed, but the AF leaves much to be desired. I shoot with a DA*300, birds and wildlife, and am throwing too many away due to oof.
This is due in part of the lens [and a little bit of shutter lag]. The SDM of the *300 is pretty slow (which a lot of people don't realize until they shoot thousands upon thousands of images of fast moving subjects like birds in flight or birds in motion), I would get about a 10% in-focus keeper rate of BIF or BIM with the K5 and *300 combo - when I switched to Sigma HSM lenses the in-focus rate jumped to about 40% (keep in mind I am only talking in-focus and not actual gallery keepers).

Shutter lag is another issue, here is a chart [on Rice High's blog] that shows a comparable chart:

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: Prolonged Shutter Time Lag of K-5 and K-r (Vs K-7 and K-x)

This is one reason why I bought into a another system. I shoot almost exclusively between 2.8 and 3.5 with f/4 being on the high side for me, that thin DOF with fast moving targets pushed me into getting a system that was not only pretty accurate in the AF but more importantly super fast on the trigger (the Nikon body I am shooting with has a lag of .052 which is nearly twice as fast as the trigger on the K5). Not sure how fast the IIs is though, didn't see any marketing on that so there may be no changes on that vs the K5, would be interesting to know though.
05-13-2013, 12:23 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
This is due in part of the lens [and a little bit of shutter lag]. The SDM of the *300 is pretty slow (which a lot of people don't realize until they shoot thousands upon thousands of images of fast moving subjects like birds in flight or birds in motion), I would get about a 10% in-focus keeper rate of BIF or BIM with the K5 and *300 combo - when I switched to Sigma HSM lenses the in-focus rate jumped to about 40% (keep in mind I am only talking in-focus and not actual gallery keepers).

Shutter lag is another issue, here is a chart [on Rice High's blog] that shows a comparable chart:

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: Prolonged Shutter Time Lag of K-5 and K-r (Vs K-7 and K-x)

This is one reason why I bought into a another system. I shoot almost exclusively between 2.8 and 3.5 with f/4 being on the high side for me, that thin DOF with fast moving targets pushed me into getting a system that was not only pretty accurate in the AF but more importantly super fast on the trigger (the Nikon body I am shooting with has a lag of .052 which is nearly twice as fast as the trigger on the K5). Not sure how fast the IIs is though, didn't see any marketing on that so there may be no changes on that vs the K5, would be interesting to know though.
I have not timed it but the subjective experience is not faster on the shutter lag. I will say that AF IS faster both for lock and for the certainty of the lock - significantly faster for me. Also, the AF lock is increasingly faster the lower the light levels. No doubt that for moving targets Nikon's AF is the industry standard, but this improvement has really made a difference for me with Soccer.
05-13-2013, 12:37 PM   #83
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One should take that Rice High page with a gain of salt. As noted in the comments.

For example - using single point autofocus:
k-5 - 0.104
D7000 - 0.238
7D - 0.131

So... take that for what it's worth.

05-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
One should take that Rice High page with a gain of salt. As noted in the comments.

For example - using single point autofocus:
k-5 - 0.104
D7000 - 0.238
7D - 0.131

So... take that for what it's worth.
Yes, we should all take it for what it's worth, and that comment shows the K5 even slower than what he measured. Or, maybe even this old thread on here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/138354-k-5-shutter-lag-0-107-0-125-sec.html

Which also shows even slower - I thought that maybe he was helping the K5 a little with his numbers...
05-13-2013, 01:58 PM   #85
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For you guys who actively shoot BIF all the time (joe.penn, dane.dawg, & derrikite) the AF performance of the IIs still might not be up to your needs as far as AF tracking. But as far as the AF consistency for single shots it is a dramatic improvement which is exactly what I needed. That coupled with the improvement in sharpness and clarity of the images has made my upgrade well worth while.
05-13-2013, 02:07 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Yes, we should all take it for what it's worth, and that comment shows the K5 even slower than what he measured. Or, maybe even this old thread on here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/138354-k-5-shutter-lag-0-107-0-125-sec.html

Which also shows even slower - I thought that maybe he was helping the K5 a little with his numbers...
I think you are confusing statements here. The 0.092 on ricehigh's page is the pre-focused number - where the D7000 is 0.6something and the 7D as well. The 0.104 vs 0.2 vs 0.13 is the single-point AF mode.

That thread you linked has an update further down where the poster states he measures the k-5 to be 0.98s.
05-13-2013, 02:31 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I think you are confusing statements here.
Well, no, I think you may be confused Jin, shutter lag has absolutely nothing to do with a cameras AF system or the lens attached to it, shutter lag is measured from the mechanical operation (human press of button) of the press of the shutter button to the electronic signal conversion it takes to trip/fire the actual shutter, and the time it takes for the shutter to actually trip/fire when the signal is received..

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
The 0.092 on ricehigh's page is the pre-focused number
Exactly, the absolute only way to check shutter lag is with a pre-focused lens or AF completely off.

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
That thread you linked has an update further down where the poster states he measures the k-5 to be 0.98s.
Even at .98 seconds that is still slower than lets say .050 seconds. Honestly, I would like to know the actual lag time of the K5IIs, I don't think Pentax publishes that whereas Nikon does publish that performance number as it is pretty critical when shooting fast moving subjects - imagine a DA*300 that APPEARS to focus quite a bit faster, this can be achieved by a lesser lag time.
05-13-2013, 02:46 PM   #88
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Joe - I get your your point that shutter leg is specifically the mechanical leg of the shutter, but I think there is more than just that to consider for the majority of photographers. What Imaging Resources documentation shows is that - if you pre-focus your lens and hold the shutter button at half press, the k-5 lags at 0.92 vs the D7000 and the 7D. On the other hand, if your lens was already focused but you aren't holding the shutter button at half press, pressing that shutter button all the way would fire the shutter at 0.104s vs the 0.2s and 0.13s on the other respective cameras - and this is disregarding the focusing time of the lens.

I will agree with you that for the maximum speed, shooting on a Nikon or Canon system that has the fastest pre-focused speed would be best, but it only applies only if you already holding it at half-press.
05-13-2013, 08:37 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I think you are confusing statements here. The 0.092 on ricehigh's page is the pre-focused number - where the D7000 is 0.6something and the 7D as well.
I will point out that average human reaction time for a 25 year old is around 250ms - skilled gamers on computers can practically slice that figure in half*, because most dedicated computer hardware is designed to have extremely low latency -systems can have a latency measured circa 0.04 seconds. The shutter lag on the cameras is less of a hindrance than our own reaction times are. I actually consider viewfinder blackout to be more disruptive to capturing fast paced action - one of the reasons why I sometimes I get a bit discombobulated when switching from a rangefinder to an SLR.


* I consider myself to have higher than average reaction times, considering my collection of FPS games. Also having the inherent talent for timing as a classically trained musician extends my advantage.

Last edited by Digitalis; 05-13-2013 at 08:46 PM.
06-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #90
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Still the best dSLR purchase I have made. Just incredible when paired with great glass.
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