[Giklab]

Well Reptilezz, I"m not that much older than you, so I have no problems understanding your budget . I would second the suggestion that you should get the K-30. For your needs you lose absolutly nothing. Actually you might gain something, since the K-30/50 process Jpegs faster than the K-5 series.
Where do you live? You might find a K-30 kit for a very good price, so you can save up faster for something like the Sigma 50-500.

[leeak]

Have you consider picking up a used D7000 and Nikon AFD 300/4? Together they are about $1300 on ebay. D7000 has better tracking than K5 and the Nikon AFD 300/4 is a respectable performer. This is from a Nikon and Pentax user.

[Ferdinand]

You would just loose the internal stabilization (3-4 stops advantage) with the nikon setup, which could be life saving for telephoto use, unless you always want to use it with a tripod. I would stay with a pentax setup.

[Class A]

A better lens trumps a better camera anytime.

If you can get the Sigma 70-200/2.8 for a good price, I'd strongly consider it.
You can pair it with a 1.4x teleconverter to get a 98-280mm lens.
There is one from Sigma that fits perfectly, but other very good TCs should do the job as well. Just don't take a cheap one, as it will degrade the image quality too much.

I'm not a birder but I'd say that you don't need a super fast AF for these. The Nikon AF is better when it comes to moving subjects, but it will shine with sports, running kids, etc. For birds, the K-5 II AF will be more than fine. Birders can correct me if I'm wrong (but you've already had someone tell you that MF is often necessary).

Unless you are really need to save every penny, I wouldn't go for an old model like the K10D. The sensor in the K-5 II is significantly better and will allow you to shoot at high ISO settings, something that can be important when the light isn't that good and you need the shutter speed to keep the subject sharp.

I'd rather pay more for a camera now and then keep that as long as you can.

[Reptilezz]

A better lens trumps a better camera anytime.

If you can get the Sigma 70-200/2.8 for a good price, I'd strongly consider it.
You can pair it with a 1.4x teleconverter to get a 98-280mm lens.
There is one from Sigma that fits perfectly, but other very good TCs should do the job as well. Just don't take a cheap one, as it will degrade the image quality too much.

I'm not a birder but I'd say that you don't need a super fast AF for these. The Nikon AF is better when it comes to moving subjects, but it will shine with sports, running kids, etc. For birds, the K-5 II AF will be more than fine. Birders can correct me if I'm wrong (but you've already had someone tell you that MF is often necessary).

Unless you are really need to save every penny, I wouldn't go for an old model like the K10D. The sensor in the K-5 II is significantly better and will allow you to shoot at high ISO settings, something that can be important when the light isn't that good and you need the shutter speed to keep the subject sharp.

I'd rather pay more for a camera now and then keep that as long as you can.

Thank you, you think exactly the same as me i wanted to buy the best camera i could now, then keep that for 6 or so years and build up my lenses as i go. My friend has an ist d and he uses manual focus as well for BIFs so when i get the k5II i will use manual focus

[Giklab]

Thank you, you think exactly the same as me i wanted to buy the best camera i could now, then keep that for 6 or so years and build up my lenses as i go. My friend has an ist d and he uses manual focus as well for BIFs so when i get the k5II i will use manual focus

With digital, suddenly the camera matters almost as much as the lens. The K-5II is an amazing camera (although I needed to learn how to MF lenses properly via the focus confirmation). I would seriously advise against getting such old bodies if you plan on keeping the camera for a long time.

[Ray Pulley]

A better lens trumps a better camera anytime.

If you can get the Sigma 70-200/2.8 for a good price, I'd strongly consider it.
You can pair it with a 1.4x teleconverter to get a 98-280mm lens.
There is one from Sigma that fits perfectly, but other very good TCs should do the job as well. Just don't take a cheap one, as it will degrade the image quality too much.

I'm not a birder but I'd say that you don't need a super fast AF for these. The Nikon AF is better when it comes to moving subjects, but it will shine with sports, running kids, etc. For birds, the K-5 II AF will be more than fine. Birders can correct me if I'm wrong (but you've already had someone tell you that MF is often necessary).

Unless you are really need to save every penny, I wouldn't go for an old model like the K10D. The sensor in the K-5 II is significantly better and will allow you to shoot at high ISO settings, something that can be important when the light isn't that good and you need the shutter speed to keep the subject sharp.

I'd rather pay more for a camera now and then keep that as long as you can.

I am not a birder, but I do have the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and the matching 1.4x tele-converter as Class A describes above.

I looked a long time for a Sigma 100-300 f4, which has a great reputation, but it is pretty hard to find in Pentax mount and therefore can be pricey (and fast disappearing when listed for sale!). As far as I can tell, the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 + matching Sigma 1.4x TC is very close to the 100-300 f4 in IQ. In addition, the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 is a fast focusing lens (although it is screwdrive AF).

I think a K5II and the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 would be a good start, and you can add the TC later as they come up fairly regularly here and on Ebay.

The Nikon 7100 seems to be a good camera, and by all accounts would track moving objects better than the K5II, but I am not sure that the 7100 Toshiba sensor is as good as the Sony sensor found in the Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5, even when down-sampled to 16mp. There have been many reports of banding in the shadows with the D7100, which may or may not matter for your shooting, but it is something to consider.

Ray

[clockwork247]

i have a sigma 70-210 2.8 + 1.4 TC... that combo isn't long enough, put the 1.4TC on a 300mm lens and we're getting closer.

that's why i recommended a sigma 150-500 or 50-500 or tamron 200-500. Those are some of the cheapest way to get to 500 without a TC. They are proven to big sharp enough by samples on the web, the next step are those pro zoom like the 100-400L, 80-400G, or the 70-400G (non of which are available on pentax), and the following step is a long prime (canon is the king of the hill for that).

Check out tony northrup on how he shoot his song birds in his back yard (exact same situation).

You Tube

You Tube

you don't have to listen to what he says, but I found his technique to be relatively effective. It looks to me like he's using the 400mm L, but he's on FF, so technically 250-300 on a crop would work, however, he's got a pretty dam nice setup, the compensation that you have to do is probably going for a much longer lens (aka 500mm on a crop).

[Reptilezz]

Thanks clockwork that video had some great tips. On the topic of long lenses, what would provide better image quality and be easier to carry around on a bush walk? Sigma 120-400 $700 or sigma 150-500 $800

[bossa]

The nikon is better for action hands-down, though in low light the Pentax will have a slight edge as it can go down all the way to -3ev ish.

Personally I'd recommend going with the nikon in this case as they have a better lineup of modern telephoto lenses as well.

Not everyone wants to spend 10 grand+ on a Super-Telephoto.

[Reptilezz]

Not everyone wants to spend 10 grand+ on a Super-Telephoto.

Or can spend..

[valy]

There is another way for getting 500mm+ of focal length: telescopes. ED glass doublets can cost ~400E/$, ~600mm f/7. Is not very fast, is not very portable/hand holdable, the quality is not bad considering the price, but for static subjects is very good.

[bossa]

My advice is:

1. Wait until September and hope that Pentax announce a 24MP APS-C flagship camera
2. Buy that camera
3. Buy a DA*300 F4 and use the extra reach you get from cropping a 24MP sensor

A few notes:
1. A D7100 in 1.3x crop mode has 2x 'magnification' and so you'd get, effectively, the FOV of a 600mm lens on a FF but at 15.3MP on APS-C with a 300mm lens.
2. If Pentax were to offer a 24MP camera with IBIS then you would need to buy a DA*300 to make use of that extra crop factor and resolution.
3. The K-5II seems to have much better Hi-ISO noise control than the D7100 (look at DPR's studio comparison pages) so I'd wait for the Pentax for a few months and see what turns up before panicking. As you would know, bird shots aren't really successful at low light and low ISO due to motion blur and so you're going to need something that handles Hi-ISO noise better than a D7100 IMO.
4. There's a new Nikon 300 F4 coming out in a couple of months according to Nikon Rumors. It has VR and so I would expect it to cost about a grand more than my AF-S 300 F4 did.

[Giklab]

Thanks clockwork that video had some great tips. On the topic of long lenses, what would provide better image quality and be easier to carry around on a bush walk? Sigma 120-400 $700 or sigma 150-500 $800

The 150-500 has a bit more reach and a bit better IQ, but is also heavier and substantially longer. Also the zoom is really stiff, probably thanks to the extra weight.

[Reptilezz]

My advice is:

1. Wait until September and hope that Pentax announce a 24MP APS-C flagship camera
2. Buy that camera
3. Buy a DA*300 F4 and use the extra reach you get from cropping a 24MP sensor

A few notes:
1. A D7100 in 1.3x crop mode has 2x 'magnification' and so you'd get, effectively, the FOV of a 600mm lens on a FF but at 15.3MP on APS-C with a 300mm lens.
2. If Pentax were to offer a 24MP camera with IBIS then you would need to buy a DA*300 to make use of that extra crop factor and resolution.
3. The K-5II seems to have much better Hi-ISO noise control than the D7100 when you look at DPR's studio comparison pages so I'd wait for the Pentax for a few months and see what turns up before panicking.
4. There's a new Nikon 300 F4 coming out in a couple of month according to Nikon Rumors. It has VR and so I would expect it to cost about a grand more than my AF-S 300 F4 did.

Honestly, if i got the new pentax thats coming out, i wont be able to afford a 300 f4, and i cant get a da 300 now either because my budget wont stretch that far. If i did get the rumoured "k3" then id probably get a 55-300 and then save up for my birthday a da300. But if a new pentax comes out if its $1500 or less its mine