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08-21-2013, 05:39 AM   #1
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K5 IIs Improvements over K5

I bought a K5 shortly after it was released and when I experienced perspective distortion problems with the camera, and after using the VERY SLOW on-board correction tool, out of frustration and disappointment I put the camera aside and went back to using bridge cameras. I don't have these problems with much cheaper bridge cameras. I am seriously wondering if something might be out of whack with this camera, and unfortunately I do not have any samples to share, though I am planning on doing some comparison photos with my other cameras. Is it even possible that the problem could be in the camera? I really don't have time to spend in Photo Shop making all these adjustments in perspective distortion. I barely have time to go out shooting.

Another problem I have with the K5 is it not firing off a shot after I got the focus confirmation beep. I mostly shoot in aperture mode.

And the focus is not that fast on the K5.

I really like bridge cameras for the type of photography I do, urban shooting in some potentially dangerous areas. But...I want better IQ for enlargements than I can get with my Fuji HS30 or the X-S1 I was considering.

I was thinking of getting a K5 IIs if it improves these problems. After I got my K5, I invested in four other lenses, but unfortunately none of them even get close to the zoom range I have on my Fuji.

Any feedback will be appreciated as I am getting ready to invest in a new camera and I was really excited about getting into the Pentax family.

08-21-2013, 05:48 AM   #2
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You're very unlikely to ever achieve that zoom range that the Fuji you own has, because its 24-720mm. You would need a 480mm (720mm 35 equivalent) lens and it would not go as wide (75mm is as wide as the 500mm's go). But you have hit the nail on the head about why the dSLRs exist - they have significantly better IQ and resolution plus greater creative control.

Your Fuji has a 1/2" sensor and the K5 series has an APS-C (1.5x crop factor) size sensor.
08-21-2013, 05:57 AM   #3
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This is no answer but Doc raises a subject I've wondered about - why specify sensor sizes in odd fractions of an inch? Specifying dimensions in mm makes far more sense.
08-21-2013, 06:12 AM   #4
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The distortion correction problem is not a problem with the camera body. The distortion is in the lens and you are seeing it because of the better resolution of the sensor. The slowness of the distortion correction in the body is that it needs to adjust each of the pixels and it takes time The computer in the camera is a special purpose CPU for mobile applications and for handling the sensor. Its not you desktop - or you would need a very long extension cord.

The correction is best done on you desktop. It does take time, but if you have very little of it, you need to triage and figure out what you want to do.

Your bridge camera has the same distortion - actually is has more with such a wide focal range. Its just that the sensor is smaller and it is not as apparent. The rule of thumb on interchangeable zoom lenses is about 4x. The reason for this is keeping the distortion and other image quality factors under control. It is much easier to put a much wider zoom on the smaller sensor than on the larger sensor (the above discussion). It also comes down to design complexity, physical size, weight, cost of glass, aperture and the rest all contributing to the end product cost.



08-21-2013, 07:03 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by p38arover Quote
I've wondered about - why specify sensor sizes in odd fractions of an inch? Specifying dimensions in mm makes far more sense.
Indeed, but these strange "sensor sizes" aren't really meaningful physical sizes at all. They are relicts from the days of TV cathode ray tubes, and are rather "names" (indicating the useful portion of a CRT if my understanding is correct). But it is a now an unambiguous designation that one can look up in a table
08-21-2013, 07:57 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by TooLoose Quote
I bought a K5 shortly after it was released and when I experienced perspective distortion problems with the camera, and after using the VERY SLOW on-board correction tool, out of frustration and disappointment I put the camera aside and went back to using bridge cameras.

[ ... snip ... ]

Is it even possible that the problem could be in the camera?

And the focus is not that fast on the K5.

[ ... snip ... ]

I was thinking of getting a K5 IIs if it improves these problems. After I got my K5, I invested in four other lenses, but unfortunately none of them even get close to the zoom range I have on my Fuji.

Any feedback will be appreciated as I am getting ready to invest in a new camera and I was really excited about getting into the Pentax family.
The K-5 II improves low light autofocus speed. It doesn't improve good light AF speed.

You might want to try upgrading the firmware on your K-5. Somewhere along the version sequence, it became possible to shoot an unlimited burst with distortion correction on, up from just 4 frames in version 1.00. You can also alter exposure and keep shooting while the camera processes the distortion correction. You can't go into the menus and you can't review images, that's it.

I don't think the K-5 II distortion correction is any different from the regular K-5. I also sometimes wish that Pentax had hardware accelerated distortion (and chroma-) correction like some other brands, instead of the slow firmware implementation that they obviously have now.

Regards,
--Anders.
08-21-2013, 08:29 AM   #7
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If you don't pixel peep, don't shoot shallow DOF, never need high ISO, and only print small, the bridge is probably a better camera for you. If the IQ doesn't suit your needs, the SLR is the obvious choice. I would advise turning off in camera corrections. Most Pentax lenses don't have too much distortion any way. If you want to correct them, shoot in RAW, import into Lightroom, and just click the box for the lens profile correction. It takes 0.1 seconds. Mine is set up to automatically apply lens corrections on import, so 0 seconds for me. While you are in there, you can correct exposure, so add 2 more seconds. If white balance is off, add 0.5 more seconds. Lightroom is easy and fun, and you can upload right to Facebook or Flickr or whatever from right there. Best tool in the world for a photographer. Best of all, there is a free trial. Download it, and you'll be hooked!
08-23-2013, 01:15 PM   #8
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Thanks so much for all this useful information. I've wondered why a much cheaper camera with a way smaller sensor could give me less distortion than a much better camera with a significantly larger sensor. If I go with the Pentax solution, I will definitely pick up LightRoom. It seems to handle the distortion problem without much intervention, which is what I need. I already spend hours editing photos after a big shoot and I do that a few times a week.

I must confess, though, that I really enjoy using bridge cameras. They are perfect for what I do, at least the acquiring of the images. However, the Pentax delivers such a better image. If Fuji went to a larger sensor on an upgrade of the X-S1, I would have gone for it, but I spoke with a Fuji technician and he said sales were disappointing on that model and he doubted there would be an upgrade.

I'm thinking the best way to help me decide is to buy LightRoom now and shoot with my K5 and see how it all goes.

Thanks again.

08-27-2013, 05:04 AM   #9
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I've been rethinking my next move and as much as I totally love bridge cameras, when I look at the chart of the sensor sizes...So rather than sell my K5 and buy a K5 II or K5 IIs and a K50, it might be wiser (now that I've updated the firmware in my K5) to keep the K5 and get a K5 IIs. My question now is how the sensors compare in my K5 and the K50. I'm not a techie and I'm trying to get more in-depth information about the sensors. Most of what I read points out it is a CMOS sensor. But how is the new sensor in the K5 II(s) different than what I already have?
08-27-2013, 09:25 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by TooLoose Quote
I bought a K5 shortly after it was released and when I experienced perspective distortion problems with the camera, and after using the VERY SLOW on-board correction tool, out of frustration and disappointment I put the camera aside and went back to using bridge cameras. I don't have these problems with much cheaper bridge cameras. I am seriously wondering if something might be out of whack with this camera, and unfortunately I do not have any samples to share, though I am planning on doing some comparison photos with my other cameras. Is it even possible that the problem could be in the camera? I really don't have time to spend in Photo Shop making all these adjustments in perspective distortion. I barely have time to go out shooting.

Another problem I have with the K5 is it not firing off a shot after I got the focus confirmation beep. I mostly shoot in aperture mode.

And the focus is not that fast on the K5.

I really like bridge cameras for the type of photography I do, urban shooting in some potentially dangerous areas. But...I want better IQ for enlargements than I can get with my Fuji HS30 or the X-S1 I was considering.

I was thinking of getting a K5 IIs if it improves these problems. After I got my K5, I invested in four other lenses, but unfortunately none of them even get close to the zoom range I have on my Fuji.

Any feedback will be appreciated as I am getting ready to invest in a new camera and I was really excited about getting into the Pentax family.
Good news is that Pentax glass will fit almost any other camera system bodies ( due to quite large focal flange distance). I personally own NX body and I generally ( with few exceptions) buy lenses for Pentax. Bad new is that you've been disgruntled with K-5, which - IMHO - is an amazing tool.
08-27-2013, 10:15 AM   #11
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Hi,

I come from Fuji background. I will address your issues.

1. If you need the zoom range that you achieve with your Fujis - please don't buy a DSLR. They are incomparable. Fuji SX1 is a very able camera but you must be registered to a Fuji X forum to know the problems associated with a big long zoom lens. The zoom lens is wobbly and there are many sensors which have a white blob on it. (Canon SX50 gives 1200mm zoom with a 450$+ or - range).

2. Fujis suffer from extreme barrel distortion. All of them. (At wide end). People claim that they can be fixed using PP, however fixing a barrel distortion which almost brings the building on the side of the picture to the center of the image is almost destruction. I can share sample. Infact every camera almost suffers from distortion - However Pentax has In-camera removal.

3. Fuji HS30 is a very able camera. Comparing XS1 and HS30. XS1 wins by a huge margin. But if you see close enough HS30 and XS1 BOTH are not the flagship models. Think deep and you will know why. It is because they don't have what it takes be the flagship. XS1 was launched with a big bang but it was muffled so fast - No one got to know. Fuji X100 X10 X100s get to be the flagship models.

4. About ZOOM: If you need very high zoom, you can go for bridge cameras, No problem at all. However you will never achieve the picture quality - Specially sharpness.

5. Bridge sensor and DSLR sensor has been explained above. Bigger the sensor the better - Everyone knows it. You can do research why on your own. I am sure you know. (However XS1 has 2/3" sensor - It is one fine piece of equipment with it's own problems).

6. I used to think like you before - Oh big zoom - Great! At 500$ price this is a steal. Later I realized those are just gimmicks. You almost never need that kind of zoom, unless you are into car racing / bird photography.

7. Distortion of K-5 and K-5 II is same and they aren't so much camera dependent as they are lens dependent. Again, in camera fix. Plus PP fixes rest - As Adobe has almost all lens and Pentax models.

8. K-5 is steal of a deal with its price. however I would still pickup a K-5 II (Already an owner). Very able - fast - spot on camera.

9. K-5 II sensor is a newer sensor (Atleast claimed) How new it is I am not sure - However it can perform an Auto focus in darkness much faster. Also it's AF in general is spot on and faster.

10. Pentax lenses are backward compatible to my fathers day of taking pictures. You can buy inexpensive manual lenses with amazing glass for even 10 - 20 to 30$s. (Having said that DPREVIEW has a thread running currently about their lenses VERY HOT! Here is the link Pentax lens prices.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review you will see that current Pentax lenses are freaking expensive - I guess poor management / marketing decision).

I know of a professional photographer (Personally) who is from Montana who uses HS30 and is a professional photographer (Sports / NASCAR). He even sells his pictures. People buy. I am not saying bridge is a wrong decision. I am just saying you have to know what kind of photography you like and then choose your equipment (Features which are kind of GOOD-TO-HAVE which you will NEVER-USE) can be avoided.

The only camera which currently sees Pentax K-5 II eye to eye would be Nikon D5100 (Beginnner / Enthusiast) or Nikon D7100 (Enthusiast / Semi-professional). Considering you already bought lenses for K-5 I would not go in that direction.

The reason why I bought Pentax K-5II - Firstly I love landscape and it fit the purpose with "highest" APSC dynamic range sensor and great color depth for my occasional portraits secondly it was not so expensive when I bought it third and last it was a complete PACKAGE of a DSLR which I wanted to buy (Weather-sealing, Magnesium alloy body - I dropped my camera already once, PENTA - "PRISM" OVF, Fast AF, 7 FPS - I could NOT have asked for more.)

HTH - Cheers!
08-29-2013, 03:31 PM   #12
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Thanks for the feedback. I read it a few days ago but haven't had time to post a response.

The bridge camera really is so perfect for what I do, but I really want better quality images so I can enlarge them. I've pretty much given up on the idea of the X-S1. As I already said, seeing the comparison of the sensor sizes is something I can't get out of my mind. So I'm going to go it Pentax. I think i'll see if my K5 is more to my liking with the updates and as for a second camera, rather than spend the bucks I don't have, I can spend less bucks i don't have and maybe pick up a K30 so I can have immediate access to two vastly different lenses. I ordered Lightroom 5 today and want to check out the suggestion by Kozlok. I really appreciated hearing from DeeDee who is familiar with the Fuji brand. (DeeDee: Your information really helped me make my decision.)
08-29-2013, 04:43 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by TooLoose Quote
I've been rethinking my next move and as much as I totally love bridge cameras, when I look at the chart of the sensor sizes...So rather than sell my K5 and buy a K5 II or K5 IIs and a K50, it might be wiser (now that I've updated the firmware in my K5) to keep the K5 and get a K5 IIs. My question now is how the sensors compare in my K5 and the K50. I'm not a techie and I'm trying to get more in-depth information about the sensors. Most of what I read points out it is a CMOS sensor. But how is the new sensor in the K5 II(s) different than what I already have?
Essentially, the K5, K30, K50, K500, K5II and K5IIs all use the same sensor. So whats the difference?
  • K5, K5II and K5IIs - each has a 14 bit Analog to Digital converter, that gives them a slight edge in shadow details. You may see the difference on large prints. The K5II and K5IIs have better auto focusing in the dark. The K5IIs has the Anti Ailiasing filter removed that usually sits over the sensor which greatly prevents/reduces moire. With its removal and using the best glass (Limited lenses), you would see about an 8% increase in resolution.
  • K30, K50, K500 - have a 12 bit Analog to Digital converter that is good but not quite as good as the 14 bit converter. These bodies have better video. The K50 is a K30 with a new body shell. The K500 is a K50 with some of the user control buttons/wheel removed and is not sealed.
I would just keep and use the K5 that you have. If you want the 8% increase in resolution for landscapes/cityscapes, wait until Pentax announces a new body. The K5IIs will drop in price down in a few months to I would think $700 +/- and then make a decision.

08-29-2013, 05:26 PM   #14
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I don't have these problems with much cheaper bridge cameras.
QuoteOriginally posted by TooLoose Quote
The bridge camera really is so perfect for what I do
Then seriously consider sticking with a bridge till you figure out what you want.
08-29-2013, 05:26 PM   #15
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Perspective distortion is something completely different to lens distortion. The OP'er complained about perspective distortion, something the K-5 does not fix in camera. Perspective distorion is not a problem specific to a camera, but is a function of field of view and angle of the sensor plane to the scene being shot (eg aim a camera up with a wide angle lens and the vertical lines converge). Lightroom can 1) completely correct lens distortion and 2) go a long way towards correcting perspective distortion.
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