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09-08-2013, 10:41 AM   #1
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K5 pef files must not be the same as K5 ll pef

I am able to view K5 pef files on my VISTA computer but not the pef files from the K5 ll using Windows Live Photo Gallery...
Any one know of a fix?
Thanks....
Len

09-08-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
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I did a quick search and couldn't find a recent Microsoft Codec Pack to support K-5 II PEF files. In the future, when Microsoft eventually supports the K-5 II, they will update the Codec Pack and everything will work. In the meantime, you can set the camera to write DNG files which are more widely supported and probably supported on your computer. I don't think you'll lose any data by writing DNG files, but they may be slightly larger than PEF files.
09-08-2013, 12:02 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aegon Quote
I don't think you'll lose any data by writing DNG files, but they may be slightly larger than PEF files.
PEF files aren't any smaller than DNG files. DNG has lossless compression just like PEF. What you may lose are in camera settings. Those settings are only applied to the JPEG preview, but some programs apply them to the RAW file as well.
09-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #4
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The most recent Camera Codec Pack from Microsoft is here (version 16.4.1970.0624):
Download details: Microsoft Camera Codec Pack (16.4.1970.0624) - Microsoft Download Center
This version is from 9/7/2013 (see Quick Details).

It seems the last 'PEF' camera in the supported list is the K-30 (May 2012). The K5-II and K5-IIs are from Sep 2012.

Pentax itself only supports DNG in its most recent camera's, they seem to have abandoned PEF, the K-50 and K-500 only have DNG. So it 'could' be that Microsoft says, well if Pentax doesn't support PEF why should we. This is only speculation, of course.

My personal view has always been that Pentax is digging a hole for themselves because they are creating a dependency (DNG from Adobe) and by not supporting PEF, 3-rd parties (PP software, Microsoft ..) could abandon it too, and the way back is cut off.

09-08-2013, 01:55 PM   #5
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Btw. the K-30 only has DNG, no PEF. I just checked mine after you, Kobayashi.K, wrote that sentence. I thought this was mentioned in a thread just as the K-30 came out.
09-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
Btw. the K-30 only has DNG, no PEF. I just checked mine after you, Kobayashi.K, wrote that sentence. I thought this was mentioned in a thread just as the K-30 came out.
Yes, you're right.
The K-30 is in Microsoft's PEF list, and also the K-01. They indeed have no PEF. Strange.
09-08-2013, 04:16 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Applianceguy Quote
I am able to view K5 pef files on my VISTA computer but not the pef files from the K5 ll using Windows Live Photo Gallery...
Any one know of a fix?
Thanks....
Len
Thanks for the replies.
I have had a K5 for about two years, I picked up a new K5 ll this weekend, just wanting to keep things simple for quick viewing photo files while using both cameras...
I was looking for the convenience of being able to quickly look at both the K5 ll pef files and, as I have been doing with the K5 pef files, using the Windows Live Photo Gallery.
I had downloaded the latest Codec Pack from MS knowing that it didn’t support the K5 ll the other day.
I guess what I find surprising is that the K5 and K5 ll actually have pef files that are so different..
09-08-2013, 04:40 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Applianceguy Quote
Thanks for the replies.
I have had a K5 for about two years, I picked up a new K5 ll this weekend, just wanting to keep things simple for quick viewing photo files while using both cameras...
I was looking for the convenience of being able to quickly look at both the K5 ll pef files and, as I have been doing with the K5 pef files, using the Windows Live Photo Gallery.
I had downloaded the latest Codec Pack from MS knowing that it didnít support the K5 ll the other day.
I guess what I find surprising is that the K5 and K5 ll actually have pef files that are so different..
Don't be surprised as there hasn't been a single case I can recall when a new camera from any manufacturer didn't have a new RAW format. It happens every single time.

09-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Applianceguy Quote
Thanks for the replies.
I have had a K5 for about two years, I picked up a new K5 ll this weekend, just wanting to keep things simple for quick viewing photo files while using both cameras...
I was looking for the convenience of being able to quickly look at both the K5 ll pef files and, as I have been doing with the K5 pef files, using the Windows Live Photo Gallery.
I had downloaded the latest Codec Pack from MS knowing that it didn’t support the K5 ll the other day.
I guess what I find surprising is that the K5 and K5 ll actually have pef files that are so different..
I also don't know why they are different. I only know it's a variation on TIFF. Perhaps you can find more by searching "PEF" on this forum.

Pentax had also a RAW Codec for various Windows versions, but I can't find it on the (changed) Ricoh website. Try searching "Pentax RAW Codec" or "Pentax RAW codec software for Windows" on Google or Bing.

I did a quick check for the K5-II in PaintShop Pro X5 (+ service pack 3). The PEF is nicely read and can be edited.
09-10-2013, 02:06 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Don't be surprised as there hasn't been a single case I can recall when a new camera from any manufacturer didn't have a new RAW format. It happens every single time.
They are typically not new formats. But they do have a different model name in them, and sometimes additional metadata.

The reason that software doesn't process the raw files until it has been updated is that it doesn't know enough about the camera (especially sensor) details. The software has to be upgraded with those details once the software developers know them, and typically that requires testing of a camera.

The reason DNG is so much better is that (unlike a typical non-DNG raw file) DNG files contain sufficient camera/sensor details for high-quality raw processing to be done. So instead of software having to be upgraded with those details, it can read it directly from the DNG file. For a simplified example: a PEF won't tell you what sensor values correspond to the colour of a London bus in daylight, but a DNG file will. (Or a bit more precisely: a DNG file contains colour matrices that identify the mapping of the camera's colour space onto CIE XYZ colour space).

There is more than you wanted to know about the sort of details a DNG file holds here.
09-10-2013, 02:22 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kobayashi.K Quote
The most recent Camera Codec Pack from Microsoft is here (version 16.4.1970.0624):
Download details: Microsoft Camera Codec Pack (16.4.1970.0624) - Microsoft Download Center
This version is from 9/7/2013 (see Quick Details).

It seems the last 'PEF' camera in the supported list is the K-30 (May 2012). The K5-II and K5-IIs are from Sep 2012.

Pentax itself only supports DNG in its most recent camera's, they seem to have abandoned PEF, the K-50 and K-500 only have DNG. So it 'could' be that Microsoft says, well if Pentax doesn't support PEF why should we. This is only speculation, of course.

My personal view has always been that Pentax is digging a hole for themselves because they are creating a dependency (DNG from Adobe) and by not supporting PEF, 3-rd parties (PP software, Microsoft ..) could abandon it too, and the way back is cut off.
I've been predicting (and hoping) for many years that Pentax would eventually abandon PEF in favour of DNG. I hope they complete the process with the next set of cameras, although I'm not taking a bet!

DNG is the only archival raw file format. The reasons are that it is the only one that has sufficient metadata for a high quality raw conversion to be done by software that doesn't know anything about the specific camera model, and the only one that is formally openly specified, with a freely available source-based SDK, etc.

When Pentax launch a new camera, there will always be a delay before its PEF can be handled properly by any software. But as long as it uses version 1.1.0.0. of DNG, (as all recent Pentax models do), lots of software will handle the camera even if that software was issued before the camera was known about. (The software I'm using for my K-5IIs DNGs was supplied before the camera was launched, and doesn't handle PEFs from this camera).

Adobe have given DNG to ISO for standardisation, but it has been delayed there for years. In the meantime, it is the next best thing to an ISO standard raw file format. (Actually, it is certainly better than the existing ISO standard raw file format!)
09-10-2013, 03:04 AM   #12
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I like the idea behind using DNG, but unfortunately Adobes own software forces me to stick to PEF!

The reason is my strong favouring of XMP sidecar files. Why that? Because they are so tiny, their (mass) processing is much much faster, when using meta data editing Tools such as ExifTool or GeoSetter. Secondly, because they are plain text files, this opens up complementary editing methods, e.g. quick search-&-replace within all XMP files of a directory, with a single press of a button, when using powerful text editors (e.g. Notepad++). Thirdly, because they are detached from the RAW file, doing several backups during a long meta data editing session is very quick.

I don't like about Adobe, that DNG and XMP doesn't seem to go together? At least I haven't found a config setting, where I can tell Adobe tools to never touch DNG files, but to put all metadata changes into XMP files instead? Making DNG files read-only doesn't help, because then metadata is not editable at all.

Or has anyone found a trick to have a DNG-with-XMP metadata workflow, even with Adobe software?

Last edited by Frater; 09-10-2013 at 03:14 AM.
09-10-2013, 03:23 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
PEF files aren't any smaller than DNG files. DNG has lossless compression just like PEF. What you may lose are in camera settings. Those settings are only applied to the JPEG preview, but some programs apply them to the RAW file as well.
DNG files on my K10D are always 16MB. PEF files seem to vary from around 7MB to 11MB.
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09-10-2013, 03:36 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
DNG files on my K10D are always 16MB. PEF files seem to vary from around 7MB to 11MB.
On newer Pentax DSLR's this is no longer the case and DNG's are as small as PEFs
09-10-2013, 04:10 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
DNG files on my K10D are always 16MB. PEF files seem to vary from around 7MB to 11MB.
That is also true of the K20D, but the K-7 introduced DNG compression.
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