Using the EV Compensation

jmerchant · 11-19-2014, 11:24 AM

So I was messing around lastnight with setting that off 0 (both + and - amounts), and it seemed to me that when I loaded up the raw image in LR, that it would load the original (saying Loading) then once it was done, this pale overlay was added to the image (I think I really only got this on + values of EV). The loading image was much richer and then once it was done it was pale and kind of gross...

My biggest question is this normal, is this what EV compensation will do to the image when PP? If that's the case it seems like something I don't want to use. The loading image was much better looking and I really have to work at getting it back - even reducing the exposure didn't help, I think there's some contrast and clarity that have to tweaked...

Adam · 11-19-2014, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by jmerchant

My biggest question is this normal, is this what EV compensation will do to the image when PP? If that's the case it seems like something I don't want to use. The loading image was much better looking and I really have to work at getting it back - even reducing the exposure didn't help, I think there's some contrast and clarity that have to tweaked...

When you shoot in RAW, the camera doesn't apply any image processing. You have to make the photo pop on your own, which can actually be challenging at times (which is why I recommend RAW+, as the JPEGs give you a good starting point). What you probably saw is the processed JPEG preview thumbnail which was shown prior to the actual RAW data.

jmerchant · 11-19-2014, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Adam

When you shoot in RAW, the camera doesn't apply any image processing. You have to make the photo pop on your own, which can actually be challenging at times (which is why I recommend RAW+, as the JPEGs give you a good starting point). What you probably saw is the processed JPEG preview thumbnail which was shown prior to the actual RAW data.

Interesting, but I've never noticed this before - I don't remember off the top of my head which raw i'm using...but I'm pretty sure it's never done this pale overlay before until I messed with EV. I'll play around tonight and see what happens setting EV to 0 and maybe switching lenses around. There's a couple of variables I need to verify, I just wanted to get some ideas of what it is...

Adam · 11-19-2014, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by jmerchant

Interesting, but I've never noticed this before - I don't remember off the top of my head which raw i'm using...but I'm pretty sure it's never done this pale overlay before until I messed with EV. I'll play around tonight and see what happens setting EV to 0 and maybe switching lenses around. There's a couple of variables I need to verify, I just wanted to get some ideas of what it is...

If you could post a screenshot, that would be great!

Adam
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VisualDarkness · 11-19-2014, 01:30 PM

When you set the EV to overexpose, the extra contrast the jpeg engine puts in gets more obvious. In RAW non of that processing matters though as soon as the program is done making it's own preview instead of the bundled one. RAW is a raw file and it looks pale because it's neutral and ready to get optimally post-processed by you.

Na Horuk · 11-19-2014, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by jmerchant

The loading image was much richer and then once it was done it was pale and kind of gross...

This has nothing to do with EV, but with the preview jpeg that is embedded in the raw container. If you use the Pentax raw processing software and select the same processing as the one you have in camera - the photo will look the same.
If you want to see a thumbnail more similar to the raw file, choose "Natural" as the jpeg mode in the Info menu.
EV+/- will simply choose settings (shutter, aperture, ISO) that makes the exposure darker or brighter. The best way to test this feature is to use M mode, choose settings, press Green button to meter, and then choose bracketing. Then the camera will quickly take three photos of different EV

**Hattifnatt** · 11-19-2014, 03:13 PM

I had a hard time understanding what the problem was. But I have one thing to say, if you want your final results to look better you have to shoot RAW. You'll have less pictures, because you'll spend more time with PP, but they will look better in the end.

LensBeginner · 11-19-2014, 06:08 PM

That "pale" look is the raw data from the sensor, plus some "default interpretation" by Lightroom, if any.
That's your starting point.
You can choose how much contrast you want, how much saturation, tinker with the exposure etc...

Think of it as playing with a negative in a darkroom...
In this article there is a facsimile of the first contact print of the famous "Moonlight" photo by Ansel Adams (second picture, scroll down a bit)
Kevin Shick Photography | Revisiting Ansel Adams' "Moonrise, Hernandez, NM"
Your RAW are a bit like it, dull and lifeless.
Then there's the darkroom/Lightroom and you can get your final print just as you like it.

**nicoprod** · 11-19-2014, 08:01 PM

It's not the pale overlay which is added but the JPEG preview that is removed.

jmerchant · 11-19-2014, 08:03 PM

Welp, now I feel ridiculous, I got home all ready to take some screen shots of what I was describing...but low and behold it didn't do it. The loading and loaded images looked the same - but I SWEAR it was doing something last night...ahh well, there's still some good nuggets of info in here.

Thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate all your help!

LensBeginner · 11-19-2014, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by jmerchant

Welp, now I feel ridiculous, I got home all ready to take some screen shots of what I was describing...but low and behold it didn't do it. The loading and loaded images looked the same - but I SWEAR it was doing something last night...ahh well, there's still some good nuggets of info in here.

Thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate all your help!

Well, there's loads of way it could have happened... maybe you changed some settings in the develop module, maybe you're already seeing the "pale" look because it rendered the previews based on it, but can't recognize it because you weren't shown the embedded jpeg before, or maybe it's the work of the Lightroom fairies, that change things at night.
I'm serious, they do exist, it happens to me as well!

IchabodCrane · 11-20-2014, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by jmerchant

Welp, now I feel ridiculous, I got home all ready to take some screen shots of what I was describing...but low and behold it didn't do it. The loading and loaded images looked the same - but I SWEAR it was doing something last night...ahh well, there's still some good nuggets of info in here.

Thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate all your help!

Any chance you unknowingly had the "Muted" JPEG setting on?

jmerchant · 11-20-2014, 08:47 AM

I loaded the same sets I had the night before, and none of them changed as they had...I changed no settings and didn't even load new images - so I guess I'll chalk it up to LR Fairies...lol

**pacerr** · 11-29-2014, 10:40 PM

Try re-shooting and starting over with an "untouched" preview image. Depending on the program you may now be seeing the viewable thumbnail/image after the initial application of the JPG settings.

Also note that EV correction is available to either preemptively compensate for a "mistake" in the "normal" metering evaluation or to produce HDR source files so if normal is "good" the + and - shots will be . . . well, less good? for want of a better description.

11-19-2014, 11:24 AM	#1
jmerchant Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: West Jordan Utah Posts: 200	Using the EV Compensation So I was messing around lastnight with setting that off 0 (both + and - amounts), and it seemed to me that when I loaded up the raw image in LR, that it would load the original (saying Loading) then once it was done, this pale overlay was added to the image (I think I really only got this on + values of EV). The loading image was much richer and then once it was done it was pale and kind of gross... My biggest question is this normal, is this what EV compensation will do to the image when PP? If that's the case it seems like something I don't want to use. The loading image was much better looking and I really have to work at getting it back - even reducing the exposure didn't help, I think there's some contrast and clarity that have to tweaked...

11-19-2014, 11:32 AM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	Originally posted by jmerchant My biggest question is this normal, is this what EV compensation will do to the image when PP? If that's the case it seems like something I don't want to use. The loading image was much better looking and I really have to work at getting it back - even reducing the exposure didn't help, I think there's some contrast and clarity that have to tweaked... When you shoot in RAW, the camera doesn't apply any image processing. You have to make the photo pop on your own, which can actually be challenging at times (which is why I recommend RAW+, as the JPEGs give you a good starting point). What you probably saw is the processed JPEG preview thumbnail which was shown prior to the actual RAW data. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

11-19-2014, 11:59 PM	#11
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by jmerchant Welp, now I feel ridiculous, I got home all ready to take some screen shots of what I was describing...but low and behold it didn't do it. The loading and loaded images looked the same - but I SWEAR it was doing something last night...ahh well, there's still some good nuggets of info in here. Thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate all your help! Well, there's loads of way it could have happened... maybe you changed some settings in the develop module, maybe you're already seeing the "pale" look because it rendered the previews based on it, but can't recognize it because you weren't shown the embedded jpeg before, or maybe it's the work of the Lightroom fairies, that change things at night. I'm serious, they do exist, it happens to me as well! Last edited by LensBeginner; 11-20-2014 at 03:55 PM.

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11-19-2014, 11:47 AM	#3
jmerchant Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: West Jordan Utah Posts: 200 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam When you shoot in RAW, the camera doesn't apply any image processing. You have to make the photo pop on your own, which can actually be challenging at times (which is why I recommend RAW+, as the JPEGs give you a good starting point). What you probably saw is the processed JPEG preview thumbnail which was shown prior to the actual RAW data. Interesting, but I've never noticed this before - I don't remember off the top of my head which raw i'm using...but I'm pretty sure it's never done this pale overlay before until I messed with EV. I'll play around tonight and see what happens setting EV to 0 and maybe switching lenses around. There's a couple of variables I need to verify, I just wanted to get some ideas of what it is...

11-19-2014, 11:51 AM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	Originally posted by jmerchant Interesting, but I've never noticed this before - I don't remember off the top of my head which raw i'm using...but I'm pretty sure it's never done this pale overlay before until I messed with EV. I'll play around tonight and see what happens setting EV to 0 and maybe switching lenses around. There's a couple of variables I need to verify, I just wanted to get some ideas of what it is... If you could post a screenshot, that would be great! Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

11-19-2014, 01:30 PM	#5
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	When you set the EV to overexpose, the extra contrast the jpeg engine puts in gets more obvious. In RAW non of that processing matters though as soon as the program is done making it's own preview instead of the bundled one. RAW is a raw file and it looks pale because it's neutral and ready to get optimally post-processed by you.

11-19-2014, 01:35 PM	#6
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by jmerchant The loading image was much richer and then once it was done it was pale and kind of gross... This has nothing to do with EV, but with the preview jpeg that is embedded in the raw container. If you use the Pentax raw processing software and select the same processing as the one you have in camera - the photo will look the same. If you want to see a thumbnail more similar to the raw file, choose "Natural" as the jpeg mode in the Info menu. EV+/- will simply choose settings (shutter, aperture, ISO) that makes the exposure darker or brighter. The best way to test this feature is to use M mode, choose settings, press Green button to meter, and then choose bracketing. Then the camera will quickly take three photos of different EV

11-19-2014, 03:13 PM	#7
Hattifnatt Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bucharest Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,625	I had a hard time understanding what the problem was. But I have one thing to say, if you want your final results to look better you have to shoot RAW. You'll have less pictures, because you'll spend more time with PP, but they will look better in the end.

11-19-2014, 06:08 PM	#8
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	That "pale" look is the raw data from the sensor, plus some "default interpretation" by Lightroom, if any. That's your starting point. You can choose how much contrast you want, how much saturation, tinker with the exposure etc... Think of it as playing with a negative in a darkroom... In this article there is a facsimile of the first contact print of the famous "Moonlight" photo by Ansel Adams (second picture, scroll down a bit) Kevin Shick Photography \| Revisiting Ansel Adams' "Moonrise, Hernandez, NM" Your RAW are a bit like it, dull and lifeless. Then there's the darkroom/Lightroom and you can get your final print just as you like it.

11-19-2014, 08:01 PM	#9
nicoprod Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Berlin, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528	It's not the pale overlay which is added but the JPEG preview that is removed.

11-19-2014, 08:03 PM	#10
jmerchant Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: West Jordan Utah Posts: 200 Original Poster	Welp, now I feel ridiculous, I got home all ready to take some screen shots of what I was describing...but low and behold it didn't do it. The loading and loaded images looked the same - but I SWEAR it was doing something last night...ahh well, there's still some good nuggets of info in here. Thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate all your help!

11-20-2014, 05:01 AM	#12
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by jmerchant Welp, now I feel ridiculous, I got home all ready to take some screen shots of what I was describing...but low and behold it didn't do it. The loading and loaded images looked the same - but I SWEAR it was doing something last night...ahh well, there's still some good nuggets of info in here. Thanks for all the responses! I really appreciate all your help! Any chance you unknowingly had the "Muted" JPEG setting on?

11-20-2014, 08:47 AM	#13
jmerchant Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: West Jordan Utah Posts: 200 Original Poster	I loaded the same sets I had the night before, and none of them changed as they had...I changed no settings and didn't even load new images - so I guess I'll chalk it up to LR Fairies...lol

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11-29-2014, 10:40 PM	#14
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,349	Try re-shooting and starting over with an "untouched" preview image. Depending on the program you may now be seeing the viewable thumbnail/image after the initial application of the JPG settings. Also note that EV correction is available to either preemptively compensate for a "mistake" in the "normal" metering evaluation or to produce HDR source files so if normal is "good" the + and - shots will be . . . well, less good? for want of a better description.