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12-17-2014, 02:53 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
That is where most problems arise.... spot metering can be a 'life-saver' but it can be very unforgiving, learn how to use and what not to use it.
aleonx3, why is it that you suppose that I do not know how to use it?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124554776@N07/

Please have a look... All shot in 'spot' and many are JPEGs straight out of camera with no post processing at all...

---------- Post added 12-17-14 at 02:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yes...spot. The spot meter region is bound by the () in the viewfinder. If that is the point of discontinuity, it would be good evidence of the mode. Oh...that and the exif indicates spot meter mode. What you experienced is expected. The only portion of the scene being metered is the space between the ( and the ).


Steve
Maybe also too big? I'm starting to believe that the K-5 II isn't for me...

---------- Post added 12-17-14 at 02:56 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnyates Quote
It's probably the lens. I have the same problem with the DA 35mm 2.4. If I want accurate focus towards infinity distance, I'm better off focussing manually.
I might return it then...

12-17-2014, 03:03 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
aleonx3, why is it that you suppose that I do not know how to use it?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124554776@N07/

Please have a look... All shot in 'spot' and many are JPEGs straight out of camera with no post processing at all...[COLOR="Silver"]
If you think that you can use spot metering for any situation and you have photos to prove it that it is good for your shots, then I will leave it up to you to be your own judge.
12-17-2014, 03:42 PM   #33
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I have the same setup, the focus problem is with that lens. fantastic IQ when it hits but drove me crazy trying to adjust for it.
Depends on the distance to the object it can either be front or back focus. I ended up setting it to be spot on at mid zoom around 20 ft
which suits what I use it for. Stopping it down takes care of the rest. My SP 24-135 is just great any where set at 0.
For the Metering that is another story, been all over that one and found even the White balance can affect it to blow out highlights. Also
it seems that it covers only a small portion of the scene even in Multi zone, very little difference from center weighted. Very good camera but takes a lot
of work to get consistency out of it. Not a lazy man's kit.
12-17-2014, 03:54 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobpur Quote
I have the same setup, the focus problem is with that lens. fantastic IQ when it hits but drove me crazy trying to adjust for it.
Depends on the distance to the object it can either be front or back focus. I ended up setting it to be spot on at mid zoom around 20 ft
which suits what I use it for. Stopping it down takes care of the rest. My SP 24-135 is just great any where set at 0.
For the Metering that is another story, been all over that one and found even the White balance can affect it to blow out highlights. Also
it seems that it covers only a small portion of the scene even in Multi zone, very little difference from center weighted. Very good camera but takes a lot
of work to get consistency out of it. Not a lazy man's kit.
Thank you for the honesty - and for not judging without reason. This is exactly what's happening... Like I said, if it's the lens, I will happily return it. Although I'm starting to wonder if I got screwed with the camera... It made this with a Tamron 28-75, with a 50 1.8, and now with the 35........

12-17-2014, 05:50 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
...Even with a single focus point there is often a problem with discrimination. This is true regardless of brand or cost of camera.


Steve
Never an issue with any of the Nikons, and most certainly not with the Fuji... And using focus-and-recompose technique with a 1.4 lens...

Last edited by Flugelbinder; 03-30-2015 at 02:04 PM.
12-17-2014, 07:53 PM   #36
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Set your focus to center not ( top square with the dot ) don't use select. Stop down 1 or 2 on the aperture, will give it a better hit with a deeper DOF
and use auto ISO up to 4000 noise reduction on Auto.also try center weighted for the metering.
Never mind the special test things your not going to be keeping test charts as holiday souvenirs anyways !
Remember if you are close and recompose it can be enough to change the focus point so it needs the added DOF with the slower aperture.
And set the viewfinder diopter as best as you can to be able to check the focus.
Photo with the 28-75 @ f5. the DOF is not even the full flower top.
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12-18-2014, 01:59 AM   #37
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Here is an example of my 'back-focus' out on a Press job I took this with my K10D and the 35-80mm f4-5.6 SMC Pentax-F lens which is usually very sharp -- the Snowman is soft, the background is sharper-- the newspaper still used it though !
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12-18-2014, 06:39 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
I know, and that's what's worrying me... Camera is set to AFS on the dial...

One more thing that's starting to get on me, and I've asked about it before taking the plunge, is about metering consistency. It seems like it's behaving much like the af is... An example...

If focused on the wall above the window, gives me a correct exposure, but if focused on the tip of the wall, with part of the sky inside the (), the meter tells me I'm 6 stops over exposed?...

O c'mon what the HEdoublehockeysticks do you expect for your example type of EV scene by using spot metering, f2.4, IS0 400 & 1/160 in manual mode. You got just what you had the camera set up for, run that on a simulator and see what you get. This is what you get...GARBAGE IN = GARBAGE OUT The only difference with the simulator is if it could do an example spot meter, the young girl would be more properly exposed with the rest being blown out, per your example. Yep your meter would be correctly reading high based on your exposure settings.
=========

Your not liking your Pentax gear, that's fine but please don't try to insult this communities intelligence by manually going out of the box with your exposure settings and expect us to believe it's your Pentax camera's fault, metering or anything else .

I hope those baby photos aren't an example of sharp focus of the Fuji vs Pentax. In photo A. the only sharp part is the babies ear, the rest OOF I attribute to very narrow DOF. The others I don't find any real sharp focal point but I do find they are pleasingly soft for portraiture.

It's ok your not liking your Pentax gear. Sell it and be happy with something else. That's what is really important your being happy in your photography. Not all gear is for everyone. Just accept there are many in this community that know and utilize their Pentax gear with precision so it's hard to buy some of what you continue to knock with the system.


Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-18-2014 at 07:34 AM.
12-18-2014, 07:14 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
O c'mon what the HEdoublehockeysticks do you expect when for your example type of EV scene and using spot metering, f2.4, IS0 400 & 1/160 in manual mode. You got just what you had the camera set up for, run that on a simulator and see what you get. This is what you get...GARBAGE IN = GARBAGE OUT
=========

Your not liking your Pentax gear, that's fine but please don't try to insult this communities intelligence by manually going out of the box with your exposure settings and expect us to believe it's your Pentax camera's fault, metering or anything else .

Your next set of photos taken with your Fuji are are well within the EV exposure triangle acceptance that you would achieve with any proper working camera. Don't believe me try it for your self, run it on a simulator. Take your Fuji, Nikon or any other camera out and use it on the same subject, same focus spots with the same exact manual settings you used for you K5 ll and you would get more or less the same result or visa versa using you Pentax with the same settings used for your Fuji. Manual Exposure will be the same unless your pointing the camera at different lighting in the scene.
I'm not trying to insult anyone, and I'm not saying I don't like Pentax (although I'm starting to believe that it's not the tool for me is what I wrote), I'm only stating what I'm 'seeing'. If it's too much for you, or some others, I apologize, but some agree with me...
If you think your image looks like mine, maybe you should have another look. My image wasn't over exposed, the meter/camera was telling me that I was over exposing. In what way does this show my trying to insult anyone?
It's the second - or third - comment that I usually read on 'the other' forum'...

---------- Post added 12-18-14 at 07:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxpete Quote
Here is an example of my 'back-focus' out on a Press job I took this with my K10D and the 35-80mm f4-5.6 SMC Pentax-F lens which is usually very sharp -- the Snowman is soft, the background is sharper-- the newspaper still used it though !
An extreme example, but not quite what I'm talking about. It's little nuances like focussing on the mic instead of a face, hair instead of an eye, etc...

Last edited by Flugelbinder; 12-18-2014 at 07:41 AM.
12-18-2014, 07:44 AM   #40
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Last night I made some more tests... When in close range, it's unbelievable...
This is why I came to Pentax... Sooc... But, as clearly seen in the last image, the inconsistency is there... Focus on the right eye, the camera gets the Canon in focus... No focus recompose, just focus and shoot.

---------- Post added 12-18-14 at 08:05 AM ----------

Is this insulting anyone's intelligence, like stated a couple of post above? If so, I really do apologize. I love how Pentax renders colors and that's what I'm here for...
Last night, after giving it another try and getting the 35 where I want it - or where it wants to go, I'm still not happy with it''s long range lack of accuracy - I've decided to stay with Pentax (if you guys still want me ). Even my wife, who was so upset when I made the switch and kept telling me "I told you so" when I started to get frustrated with what I'm posting in this thread, last night, when reviewing these images (and one I took from her eyes, that I don't post here respecting her wishes, but was sooo sharp) began saying I may have been right after all coming to Pentax...

Last edited by Flugelbinder; 03-30-2015 at 02:04 PM.
12-18-2014, 08:31 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
Last night I made some more tests... When in close range, it's unbelievable...
This is why I came to Pentax... Sooc... But, as clearly seen in the last image, the inconsistency is there... Focus on the right eye, the camera gets the Canon in focus... No focus recompose, just focus and shoot.

---------- Post added 12-18-14 at 08:05 AM ----------

Is this insulting anyone's intelligence, like stated a couple of post above? If so, I really do apologize. I love how Pentax renders colors and that's what I'm here for...
Last night, after giving it another try and getting the 35 where I want it - or where it wants to go, I'm still not happy with it''s long range lack of accuracy - I've decided to stay with Pentax (if you guys still want me ). Even my wife, who was so upset when I made the switch and kept telling me "I told you so" when I started to get frustrated with what I'm posting in this thread, last night, when reviewing these images (and one I took from her eyes, that I don't post here respecting her wishes, but was sooo sharp) began saying I may have been right after all coming to Pentax...
Flugelbinder, a small number of thoughts to share. Maybe it will help... maybe not.

1) I think of spot metering as more of a "special situation" tool. The 2nd and 3rd shot appear underexposed (to me). Switch to either matrix or center-weighted and I *think* you'll get a better exposed image.

2) It's generally pointless to compare mirrorless (i.e your X-E1) focus systems to DSLR focus systems as they employ entirely different principles for achieving focus. CDAF (mirrorless) has a very high accuracy rate provided the subject is motionless. DSLRs can handle non-stationary subjects much better, though a few expensive MILCs are getting quite good now at tracking.

3) If you have the camera set to link exposure with focus (and I think you do from reading your posts), then as soon as you lock focus you also lock exposure. This is why the camera indicated a huge over-exposure on the brick wall of the house. You correctly locked the exposure to the wall but as soon as you move the center spot, the camera is telling you that locked exposure is way to high for the new spot it's aimed at. This is completely normal behavior and, importantly, a very useful tool when in spot metering mode. The camera is letting you know the relative exposure for any given spot once it's locked by you.

Hope that helps.
12-18-2014, 08:43 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Flugelbinder, a small number of thoughts to share. Maybe it will help... maybe not.

1) I think of spot metering as more of a "special situation" tool. The 2nd and 3rd shot appear underexposed (to me). Switch to either matrix or center-weighted and I *think* you'll get a better exposed image.

2) It's generally pointless to compare mirrorless (i.e your X-E1) focus systems to DSLR focus systems as they employ entirely different principles for achieving focus. CDAF (mirrorless) has a very high accuracy rate provided the subject is motionless. DSLRs can handle non-stationary subjects much better, though a few expensive MILCs are getting quite good now at tracking.

3) If you have the camera set to link exposure with focus (and I think you do from reading your posts), then as soon as you lock focus you also lock exposure. This is why the camera indicated a huge over-exposure on the brick wall of the house. You correctly locked the exposure to the wall but as soon as you move the center spot, the camera is telling you that locked exposure is way to high for the new spot it's aimed at. This is completely normal behavior and, importantly, a very useful tool when in spot metering mode. The camera is letting you know the relative exposure for any given spot once it's locked by you.

Hope that helps.
Thank you. #3 does help, since I had to release the shutter to get another reading...
12-18-2014, 08:49 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
I'm not trying to insult anyone, and I'm not saying I don't like Pentax (although I'm starting to believe that it's not the tool for me), I'm only stating what I'm 'seeing'.
If you think your image looks like mine, maybe you should have another look. My image wasn't over exposed, the meter/camera was telling me that I was over exposing. In what way does this show my trying to insult anyone?
It's the second - or third - comment that I usually read on 'the other' forum'...
The background sky most assuredly is and is what one would expect for using spot metering with the settings you chose which is what I was showing per the simulator background and explaining. Yep it was telling you were overexposed because the settings you chose were doing just that, Overexposing the background, which is what you would get using any camera on spot meter with those settings in that same lighting.

To me you insult our intelligence by posting complaints in these forums of your camera not being as good at doing something as Nikon or Fuji, then provide examples with your exif clearly showing your improperly using your camera settings that even those cameras would not perform well. Then insult our intelligence further by stating your Nikon or Fuji was better at doing similar things but you show clear examples using them that if you used your K5 ll with the same conditions, scene, lens type, focal point and used the same exposure settings your photos would be virtually similar. Don't believe me try an exact comparison. Anyone with a decent knowledge of Exposure, DOF, Hyper focal distance etc. can look at a photo and exif info and tell if the settings were right or not and why the output result. Of course it would be possible to tweak things a tad focally to show a sharpness difference but hey that would be cheating.. IMO there is nothing your have shown that indicates to me it is a problem with your equipment and of course you haven't shown any examples of using clear bonafied testing results either.

I am not a Pentax fanboy by any stretch of the imagination and I do recognize other systems can do things better. Argue all you want but if you don't use your camera and exposure settings properly you will not get good results and that's with any camera.
12-18-2014, 09:10 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
The background sky most assuredly is and is what one would expect for using spot metering with the settings you chose which is what I was showing per the simulator background and explaining. Yep it was telling you were overexposed because the settings you chose were doing just that, Overexposing the background, which is what you would get using any camera on spot meter with those settings in that same lighting.

To me you insult our intelligence by posting complaints in these forums of your camera not being as good at doing something as Nikon or Fuji, then provide examples with your exif clearly showing your improperly using your camera settings that even those cameras would not perform well. Then insult our intelligence further by stating your Nikon or Fuji was better at doing similar things but you show clear examples using them that if you used your K5 ll with the same conditions, scene, lens type, focal point and used the same exposure settings your photos would be virtually similar. Don't believe me try an exact comparison. Anyone with a decent knowledge of Exposure, DOF, Hyper focal distance etc. can look at a photo and exif info and tell if the settings were right or not and why the output result. Of course it would be possible to tweak things a tad focally to show a sharpness difference but hey that would be cheating.. IMO there is nothing your have shown that indicates to me it is a problem with your equipment and of course you haven't shown any examples of using clear bonafied testing results either.

I am not a Pentax fanboy by any stretch of the imagination and I do recognize other systems can do things better. Argue all you want but if you don't use your camera and exposure settings properly you will not get good results and that's with any camera.

All the best to you and to yours. Happy hollidays.
12-18-2014, 09:31 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
Last night I made some more tests... When in close range, it's unbelievable...
This is why I came to Pentax... Sooc... But, as clearly seen in the last image, the inconsistency is there... Focus on the right eye, the camera gets the Canon in focus... No focus recompose, just focus and shoot.
Do yourself a favor, you'll drive yourself crazy with with examples like this especially at close up using a wide open aperture and where the depth of field is very narrow where any movement can change what's in sharp focus, Babies are not perfectly still and make a poor gauge. Plus the two examples are taken at different distances which can compound depth of field differences with a moving subject.. If you want to check camera/lens sharp focus do yourself a huge favor by trying to do it with proper testing equipment in a manner consistent with obtaining proficient results.

Another thing you may consider is shutting off your shutter half press where a slight release of pressure can cause refocus, sometimes with a very slight OOF result. Use of the back AF button to many, including myself, find using it is much better for locking ones focus. A single depress focuses then release to lock focus making it easier to recompose. Using it In conjunction with AF. C a constant depress of the Af button provides an easier method for tracking motion movement. Also with the camera left in AF. C both methods can be used making focusing in either situation much easier.

Best wishes for you and yours for the holidays also. I hope you find things come easier with your Pentax through use and experience

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-18-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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