Weak link in the chain

rawr · 12-19-2014, 04:48 AM

That small hole on top is a puzzle.

It's clearly not there in the K-3 body:

as evidenced by a K-3 cutaway:

**Digitalis** · 12-19-2014, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by rawr

That small hole on top is a puzzle. It's clearly not there in the K-3 body:

They moved it to the front of the camera body...it could possibly be a mono mic* - the wiring is a bit scrambled in the cut away model, but if you look closely the red/white wires are a dead giveaway.

*though it is a bit odd place for a pic: doesn't the K3 shoot video with stereo audio?

rawr · 12-19-2014, 07:10 AM

My original thought is that it was a simple air vent on the K-5 (for air pressure relief with WR zooms, for example). Maybe with the K-3 they relocated it somewhere else. But it seems too small to be effective as a vent.

mrNewt · 12-19-2014, 08:45 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Those shots of the stripped-down K5 chassis show how small the pentaprism hump could be without the silly pop-up flash. Personally I never use the little pop-up toy, and I don't think it's necessary on a top-of-the-range camera.

It doesn't mean other's don't use it...
In a pinch, you can use that little "silly pop-up flash" to trigger other external flashes without the need of a wireless trigger.

It has its uses and on a "pro-level" camera makes even more sense... when you want all the options possible for the "just in case" situations.

LensBeginner · 12-19-2014, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by mrNewt

It doesn't mean other's don't use it...
In a pinch, you can use that little "silly pop-up flash" to trigger other external flashes without the need of a wireless trigger.

It has its uses and on a "pro-level" camera makes even more sense... when you want all the options possible for the "just in case" situations.

Yep, I concur, it's definitely there to save your back when you need it.
Besides, if you know how to use it/shape its light it's not too bad for an emergency solution...

mrNewt · 12-19-2014, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by LensBeginner

Yep, I concur, it's definitely there to save your back when you need it.
Besides, if you know how to use it/shape its light it's not too bad for an emergency solution...

You can get very good results if you use the little flash as a small fill in light while triggering your "main light / external flash"... and voila... 2 light setup and all you need is an external flash. I have to admit I use this setup when I'm on the go quite a lot.
No need for triggers or anything else

.

Dartmoor Dave · 12-20-2014, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by mrNewt

It has its uses and on a "pro-level" camera makes even more sense... when you want all the options possible for the "just in case" situations.

Although Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months.

LensBeginner · 12-20-2014, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Although Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months.

So, if everyone does that, it must be the smart thing to do, right?

Dartmoor Dave · 12-20-2014, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by LensBeginner

So, if everyone does that, it must be the smart thing to do, right?

As it's clearly what that specific market expects, then yes, it's the smart thing to do. And it would be dumb to produce an entry-level DSLR without a pop-up flash, because of the different expectations in that market.

**Digitalis** · 12-20-2014, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard of annoyed professional Canon users who with XD camera bodies complain that they have to buy an external flash or a flash commander to control wireless groups, while users of entry level bodies users get the built in flash to do it for them.

mrNewt · 12-20-2014, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Although Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months.

Then that will be one more reason to be less interested in a Pentax camera.
If I wanted a Nikon or Canon I would of bought one...

And sorry to brake it to you, but there is no such thing as a pro camera. There are just cameras with different options and settings.
There are pro photographers and whatever gear they chose is just a camera with the option they want and need the most, based on their work flow. Whatever works for one doesn't work for others.

I like options and I like what Pentax has to offer. And on their "pro-level" cameras like K-5, K-01, K-3 or Q series, that pop-up flash is very useful for me.

rawr · 12-21-2014, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras.

Depending on your definition of 'pro', most Nikon current FF's - the D600/610, D750, D800/E, D810 - have built-in flashes. The only current FF models that don't are the D4s and Df.

IMHO, if it's good enough for the D750/D810, a built-in flash will be good enough for a Pentax FF.

It's true that every Canon FF from the 6D upwards lacks built in flash. And it's true that the only current Sony FF with a built-in flash are the RX-1 models. But I'd prefer Pentax follow Nikon's path on the matter.

Built-in flash is useful not only for convenience and fill, but also as a handy wireless flash controller, as others have noted.

stevebrot · 12-21-2014, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Built-in flash is useful not only for convenience and fill, but also as a handy wireless flash controller, as others have noted.

It is also great for eating battery capacity!

Steve

magkelly · 12-28-2014, 07:51 PM

Those stripped pics are amazing. How cool it is to see inside it like that. It really makes you appreciate how well these cameras are built, doesn't it?

**TER-OR** · 12-29-2014, 10:43 AM

how about a trio of 1W LEDs instead of or in addition to a strobe - bright enough to be a headlight... with variable output it could be an easy video light.

I do agree that the pop-up flash needs a lock, I've often bumped it open when walking around - I use a sling strap, and the camera hangs upside-down.

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12-19-2014, 04:48 AM	#16
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	That small hole on top is a puzzle. It's clearly not there in the K-3 body: as evidenced by a K-3 cutaway:

12-19-2014, 05:01 AM	#17
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by rawr That small hole on top is a puzzle. It's clearly not there in the K-3 body: They moved it to the front of the camera body...it could possibly be a mono mic* - the wiring is a bit scrambled in the cut away model, but if you look closely the red/white wires are a dead giveaway. *though it is a bit odd place for a pic: doesn't the K3 shoot video with stereo audio?

12-19-2014, 07:10 AM	#18
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	My original thought is that it was a simple air vent on the K-5 (for air pressure relief with WR zooms, for example). Maybe with the K-3 they relocated it somewhere else. But it seems too small to be effective as a vent.

12-19-2014, 08:45 AM - 1 Like	#19
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Those shots of the stripped-down K5 chassis show how small the pentaprism hump could be without the silly pop-up flash. Personally I never use the little pop-up toy, and I don't think it's necessary on a top-of-the-range camera. It doesn't mean other's don't use it... In a pinch, you can use that little "silly pop-up flash" to trigger other external flashes without the need of a wireless trigger. It has its uses and on a "pro-level" camera makes even more sense... when you want all the options possible for the "just in case" situations.

12-19-2014, 08:54 AM	#20
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by mrNewt It doesn't mean other's don't use it... In a pinch, you can use that little "silly pop-up flash" to trigger other external flashes without the need of a wireless trigger. It has its uses and on a "pro-level" camera makes even more sense... when you want all the options possible for the "just in case" situations. Yep, I concur, it's definitely there to save your back when you need it. Besides, if you know how to use it/shape its light it's not too bad for an emergency solution...

12-19-2014, 09:01 AM	#21
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by LensBeginner Yep, I concur, it's definitely there to save your back when you need it. Besides, if you know how to use it/shape its light it's not too bad for an emergency solution... You can get very good results if you use the little flash as a small fill in light while triggering your "main light / external flash"... and voila... 2 light setup and all you need is an external flash. I have to admit I use this setup when I'm on the go quite a lot. No need for triggers or anything else .

12-20-2014, 02:40 AM	#22
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,882	Originally posted by mrNewt It has its uses and on a "pro-level" camera makes even more sense... when you want all the options possible for the "just in case" situations. Although Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months.

12-20-2014, 03:09 AM	#23
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Although Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months. So, if everyone does that, it must be the smart thing to do, right?

12-20-2014, 03:44 AM	#24
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,882	Originally posted by LensBeginner So, if everyone does that, it must be the smart thing to do, right? As it's clearly what that specific market expects, then yes, it's the smart thing to do. And it would be dumb to produce an entry-level DSLR without a pop-up flash, because of the different expectations in that market.

12-20-2014, 05:01 AM	#25
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months. I can't tell you how many times I have heard of annoyed professional Canon users who with XD camera bodies complain that they have to buy an external flash or a flash commander to control wireless groups, while users of entry level bodies users get the built in flash to do it for them.

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12-20-2014, 08:59 AM	#26
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Although Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. And I'd expect it to be absent on the Pentax "full frame" when it finally surfaces -- hopefully in a couple of months. Then that will be one more reason to be less interested in a Pentax camera. If I wanted a Nikon or Canon I would of bought one... And sorry to brake it to you, but there is no such thing as a pro camera. There are just cameras with different options and settings. There are pro photographers and whatever gear they chose is just a camera with the option they want and need the most, based on their work flow. Whatever works for one doesn't work for others. I like options and I like what Pentax has to offer. And on their "pro-level" cameras like K-5, K-01, K-3 or Q series, that pop-up flash is very useful for me.

12-21-2014, 04:08 AM	#27
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica (et al) don't include pop-up flashes on their "pro-level" cameras. Depending on your definition of 'pro', most Nikon current FF's - the D600/610, D750, D800/E, D810 - have built-in flashes. The only current FF models that don't are the D4s and Df. IMHO, if it's good enough for the D750/D810, a built-in flash will be good enough for a Pentax FF. It's true that every Canon FF from the 6D upwards lacks built in flash. And it's true that the only current Sony FF with a built-in flash are the RX-1 models. But I'd prefer Pentax follow Nikon's path on the matter. Built-in flash is useful not only for convenience and fill, but also as a handy wireless flash controller, as others have noted.

12-21-2014, 04:52 PM	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by rawr Built-in flash is useful not only for convenience and fill, but also as a handy wireless flash controller, as others have noted. It is also great for eating battery capacity! Steve

12-28-2014, 07:51 PM	#29
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Those stripped pics are amazing. How cool it is to see inside it like that. It really makes you appreciate how well these cameras are built, doesn't it?

12-29-2014, 10:43 AM	#30
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	how about a trio of 1W LEDs instead of or in addition to a strobe - bright enough to be a headlight... with variable output it could be an easy video light. I do agree that the pop-up flash needs a lock, I've often bumped it open when walking around - I use a sling strap, and the camera hangs upside-down.