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12-25-2014, 08:41 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
And anything with a reasonably fast shutter speed.
If you are shooting at a fast speed, my understanding was that SR had little effect so would you need to turn it off?

12-27-2014, 04:12 PM   #17
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To have the SR turn off automatically when the camera is on self-timer is a mistake in my opinion. I should be able to override that. There are numerous occasions when I have my camera setting on a tripod wanting to get a self-timer shot and I definitely want to leave it on.


Scenario 1: I am trying to take a 2sec. timer tripod shot of how a manufactured part ends up resting in position after an assembly robot has dropped it onto the fixture. This might involve a three second exposure for example due to poor lighting, and all the while the robot is still on the move transferring parts around the assembly cell and inducing a subtle but perceptible vibration to the fixture surface the tripod is setting on. I need to be able to leave the SR on.


Scenario 2: I am on a floating boat dock and want to get a 12sec. timer shot of myself with the sun going down behind me. While that is going on, there is a slight gusting breeze that occasionally pops up and there are waves slapping against the dock pontoons. All of that induces a slight vibration to the camera tripod. I need to be able to leave the SR on.


Olympus does it right. They let you turn the IS off and on when you want to and can even turn off a particular axis if you want to.
12-27-2014, 04:25 PM   #18
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I'm not even sure mine is working at all...
12-27-2014, 04:35 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by zekewhipper Quote
To have the SR turn off automatically when the camera is on self-timer is a mistake in my opinion. I should be able to override that.
Cheap shutter timer from ebay overcomes this.


Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 12-27-2014 at 04:44 PM.
12-27-2014, 04:49 PM   #20
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why? it is something that can be fixed in firmware for free.
12-27-2014, 04:57 PM   #21
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Really? How do you propose to accomplish this then?
I bet I can buy yet another cheap shutter timer from ebay before you can convince Ricoh to write a new firmware patch to change the way [all] their cameras have been engineered.
It's one thing to talk in theoreticals, but quite another to post something helpfull and doable (such as buying a cheap shutter timer from eBay)
Besides, this accessory is useful for so much more.
12-27-2014, 05:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by zekewhipper Quote
To have the SR turn off automatically when the camera is on self-timer is a mistake in my opinion. I should be able to override that. There are numerous occasions when I have my camera setting on a tripod wanting to get a self-timer shot and I definitely want to leave it on.


Scenario 1: I am trying to take a 2sec. timer tripod shot of how a manufactured part ends up resting in position after an assembly robot has dropped it onto the fixture. This might involve a three second exposure for example due to poor lighting, and all the while the robot is still on the move transferring parts around the assembly cell and inducing a subtle but perceptible vibration to the fixture surface the tripod is setting on. I need to be able to leave the SR on.


Scenario 2: I am on a floating boat dock and want to get a 12sec. timer shot of myself with the sun going down behind me. While that is going on, there is a slight gusting breeze that occasionally pops up and there are waves slapping against the dock pontoons. All of that induces a slight vibration to the camera tripod. I need to be able to leave the SR on.


Olympus does it right. They let you turn the IS off and on when you want to and can even turn off a particular axis if you want to.
SR is designed for higher frequency movement than what you are describing. Waves and tide are pretty low frequency stuff, that the body would have a difficult time detecting. A 12 second image is not going to be helped by SR too much.

12-27-2014, 08:43 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
A 12 second image is not going to be helped by SR too much.
I'd guess he means the timer is set for 12 seconds to give time to get into position.

I've also always thought that the user should be able to turn of this auto-disabling of SR. I wouldn't hold my breath though, these sorts of controls (or lack of controls) seem to err on the side of protecting the users from themselves.

12-27-2014, 09:38 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I'd guess he means the timer is set for 12 seconds to give time to get into position.

I've also always thought that the user should be able to turn of this auto-disabling of SR. I wouldn't hold my breath though, these sorts of controls (or lack of controls) seem to err on the side of protecting the users from themselves.
Now that I went back and re-read it, yes - its the 12 second delay. But, in terms of the motion the observation still applies. The wave action of the dock is very different that a camera being handheld and vibrated. The rather fast vibrating motion can be measured and the sensor moved to counteract it.

With the camera on a tripod standing on a bouncing dock, there are several things in play here. The frequency is low, and thus it is going to take some time to measure it. But in that the whole structure is moving (dock, tripod and camera), to counteract the movement, the sensor would need to move in an equal and opposite direction - way beyond the physical limits of the sensor. The reason why SR works handheld is because of the lever arm principal. A small amount of movement in the camera produces a large amount of movement in the subject. So small amounts of movement in the sensor is adequate to stabilize the image of the subject.

12-28-2014, 06:41 AM   #25
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Depends on the waves. It doesn't change the point that sometimes the timer (or IR remote) + SR would be nice to have, and it would be nice to have this built-in without a workaround. Anyone who would like this can hope that future models will give the option, everyone else can feel free to not care.
12-28-2014, 11:27 AM   #26
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Changing the program for leaving the SR on when switching to self-tmer should be a simple matter. Altering the process flow for the SR after an if/then statement related to the self-timer should not be tough. I think this is simply an issue (again) of where the manufacturer thinks they know better than the customer what they want and need.

As for shortcomings with Pentax DSRs, this issue of not being able to leave the SR on is much more important to me than the other with its own petition concerning undoing the "crippled" K-mount. I could not care less about that. Give me more control over the SR.

---------- Post added 12-28-14 at 01:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MSL Quote
If you are shooting at a fast speed, my understanding was that SR had little effect so would you need to turn it off?
I can't remember the recommended cutoff, but when you get above certain speeds, the SR can actually contribute to blurry pictures because the shutter can finish the eposure while the SR is still on the move because it is slower than the shutter at that point.

In other words, to personify it -
SR: "I detect movement, so I am starting to compensate."
SHUTTER: "I am opening now."
SR: "I'm still compensating."
SHUTTER: "I'm all done taking the picture."
SR: "WHAT?! YOU CAN'T BE. I'M NOT DONE COMPENSATING. I WAS STILL ON THE MOVE. Rats. That shot will be blurry due to me now."
12-28-2014, 03:04 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by zekewhipper Quote
Changing the program for leaving the SR on when switching to self-tmer should be a simple matter. Altering the process flow for the SR after an if/then statement related to the self-timer should not be tough. I think this is simply an issue (again) of where the manufacturer thinks they know better than the customer what they want and need.

As for shortcomings with Pentax DSRs, this issue of not being able to leave the SR on is much more important to me than the other with its own petition concerning undoing the "crippled" K-mount. I could not care less about that. Give me more control over the SR.

---------- Post added 12-28-14 at 01:46 PM ----------



I can't remember the recommended cutoff, but when you get above certain speeds, the SR can actually contribute to blurry pictures because the shutter can finish the eposure while the SR is still on the move because it is slower than the shutter at that point.

In other words, to personify it -
SR: "I detect movement, so I am starting to compensate."
SHUTTER: "I am opening now."
SR: "I'm still compensating."
SHUTTER: "I'm all done taking the picture."
SR: "WHAT?! YOU CAN'T BE. I'M NOT DONE COMPENSATING. I WAS STILL ON THE MOVE. Rats. That shot will be blurry due to me now."
Yep, that's what I've heard also...
12-29-2014, 10:20 AM   #28
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I doubt it, I think it's more like:
-CPU: SR, the user has half pressed the shutter button, you better start sampling movements.
-SR: Ok I'm on it, it seems we are shaking with amplitude this and frequency that as a base movement.
-CPU: Ops, the user pressed down fully, SR lift up the image sensor and start counteract the movements, and while you do that I will flip up the mirror.

Now two things can happen, either:
-SR: Oh crap I wasn't really finished with my sampling of the base movements, damn that user for being too fast, I will have to cancel the shake reduction part and just hold the image sensor locked in the middle and hope for the best.
Or:
-SR: No problem, the image sensor will be lifted in position and synced to the base movements long before the mirror is up.

Either way. lots of milliseconds later:
-CPU: Ok, the mirror is up, I will open the shutter now.

Last edited by Gimbal; 12-29-2014 at 10:26 AM.
12-29-2014, 10:31 AM   #29
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So, one question, it's the first time using any kind of shake reduction system... If the SR isn't quite 'finished' settling yet, could it lead to blurred images? Maybe the sensor isn't exactly aligned with the lens? I understand that the movement may be of microns, but...

Last edited by Flugelbinder; 12-29-2014 at 10:53 AM.
12-29-2014, 01:35 PM   #30
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In theory, if the SR isn't ready when you press the shutter button it should cancel the shake reduction part and the picture will be taken as if SR was turned off.

But one can also fool the SR by first doing something while half pressed, for instance panning, or aiming at something that stands still, and then when you take the picture suddenly change your pattern of movement, like stop panning or start panning or change direction or speed. But then you are actively fooling the SR and the picture will probably be blurred.
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