K-r problem: Failed to adjust appropriate shutter for flash shooting

arm_jstp · 10-26-2010, 09:16 PM

After 9 hours of playing around with the K-r, I found biggest drawback or probably bug.

I found many blur pictures even flash on. I noticed that when with flash photographing, the K-r failed to increase shutter speed to reduce picture blur, which is one of the main the reason why we use flash. I am surprised the camera tried to keep shutter speed as slow as possible instead of making it fast enough for hand-held shooting.

For example, compare between K-7 and K-r under the same condition with same DA* 16-50mm lens and ISO 200. All settings are default and both cameras are in P-mode. Green buttons are pressed once before record exposure value.
K-7 firmware 1.10.20.26
K-r firmware 1.00.00.01

Exposure value without flash:
K-r = 1/5 f2.8 (16mm), 1/4 f2.8 (50mm)
K-7 = 1/5 f2.8 (16mm), 1/4 f2.8 (50mm)

Exposure value with pop-up or AF-360FGZ flash:
K-r = 1/15 f3.5 (16mm), 1/30 f3.5 (50mm)
K-7 = 1/50 f3.5 (16mm), 1/100 f3.5 (50mm)

The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing.

Last edited by arm_jstp; 10-26-2010 at 10:08 PM.

rawr · 10-26-2010, 09:39 PM

What flash setting were you using on the K-r?
Slow-speed sync, it looks like.

sterretje · 10-26-2010, 09:40 PM

If it's a bug, it's a very old one as the K100D does the same type of thing; K10D as well if I recall correctly. I have seen neither of them going to 1/60 or shorter with the kit-lens in P-mode.

So it's not a bug.

Which mode are you using (P, scene, Av, ....)

arm_jstp · 10-26-2010, 10:05 PM

Hi, sorry I didn't mention about capture mode.

All settings are default and both cameras are in P-mode. Green buttons are pressed once before record exposure value.

tomtor · 10-26-2010, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by arm_jstp

Exposure value with pop-up or AF-360FGZ flash:
K-r = 1/15 f3.5 (16mm), 1/30 f3.5 (50mm)
K-7 = 1/50 f3.5 (16mm), 1/100 f3.5 (50mm)

The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing.

As sterretje said, this is similar on the K10. In many situations it's nice to mix in the ambient light.

If you have fast moving subjects and the ambient is quite bright then you can simply use Tv mode (or M if you also want to pick the F-stop) and pick your favorite shutter speed below 1/180s.

arm_jstp · 10-26-2010, 10:20 PM

I tried not to assume it as a bug, but when compare to one of the newer generation body like K-7, it just shows too much different.

This surprised me a lot that Pentax moved back to earlier K series algorithm. May be faster shutter priority during flash shooting of the K-7 spoiled me, then I am so upset with the K-r results.

Conan · 10-27-2010, 12:48 AM

My K-X is like that. In P-mode it goes to high ISO and slow shutter speed. Easily fixed by going into Manual mode.

egordon99 · 10-27-2010, 11:39 AM

This is not a bug. The metering is just exposing for the ambient light. If you want a faster shutter speed, go into manual and set a faster shutter speed.

You are smarter than the camera.

Eruditass · 10-27-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by arm_jstp

The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing.

That's quite the conclusion.

egordon99 · 10-27-2010, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by arm_jstp

The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing.

My two Canon bodies work like this in Av mode. I can assure you (as can all my clients) that the cameras are absolutely usable for "flash indoor photographing"

arm_jstp · 10-27-2010, 11:59 AM

Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting.

egordon99 · 10-27-2010, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by arm_jstp

Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting.

You're missing the point. You don't need to "cope" with ANYTHING you don't want. If you need a faster shutter speed to accomplish the image you have in mind, go into M and use a faster shutter speed!

SpecialK · 10-27-2010, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by arm_jstp

Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting.

Is there no X mode?

egordon99 · 10-27-2010, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by SpecialK

Is there no X mode?

I remember "X" mode from my K10D. It seemed like a waste of space on the dial. M mode with the shutter set to 1/180s would accomplish the same thing, PLUS let you quickly use a slower shutter if you desired.

Conan · 10-27-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by arm_jstp

Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting.

Put your K-X in Manual mode, set shutter speed between 1/125 to 1/180, ISO to 400, Aperture 4 or whatever your lens opening is, now give that a try.

10-26-2010, 09:16 PM	#1
arm_jstp Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 485	K-r problem: Failed to adjust appropriate shutter for flash shooting After 9 hours of playing around with the K-r, I found biggest drawback or probably bug. I found many blur pictures even flash on. I noticed that when with flash photographing, the K-r failed to increase shutter speed to reduce picture blur, which is one of the main the reason why we use flash. I am surprised the camera tried to keep shutter speed as slow as possible instead of making it fast enough for hand-held shooting. For example, compare between K-7 and K-r under the same condition with same DA* 16-50mm lens and ISO 200. All settings are default and both cameras are in P-mode. Green buttons are pressed once before record exposure value. K-7 firmware 1.10.20.26 K-r firmware 1.00.00.01 Exposure value without flash: K-r = 1/5 f2.8 (16mm), 1/4 f2.8 (50mm) K-7 = 1/5 f2.8 (16mm), 1/4 f2.8 (50mm) Exposure value with pop-up or AF-360FGZ flash: K-r = 1/15 f3.5 (16mm), 1/30 f3.5 (50mm) K-7 = 1/50 f3.5 (16mm), 1/100 f3.5 (50mm) The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing. Last edited by arm_jstp; 10-26-2010 at 10:08 PM.

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10-26-2010, 09:39 PM	#2
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	What flash setting were you using on the K-r? Slow-speed sync, it looks like.

10-26-2010, 09:40 PM	#3
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	If it's a bug, it's a very old one as the K100D does the same type of thing; K10D as well if I recall correctly. I have seen neither of them going to 1/60 or shorter with the kit-lens in P-mode. So it's not a bug. Which mode are you using (P, scene, Av, ....)

10-26-2010, 10:05 PM	#4
arm_jstp Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 485 Original Poster	Hi, sorry I didn't mention about capture mode. All settings are default and both cameras are in P-mode. Green buttons are pressed once before record exposure value.

10-26-2010, 10:10 PM	#5
tomtor Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 382	Originally posted by arm_jstp Exposure value with pop-up or AF-360FGZ flash: K-r = 1/15 f3.5 (16mm), 1/30 f3.5 (50mm) K-7 = 1/50 f3.5 (16mm), 1/100 f3.5 (50mm) The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing. As sterretje said, this is similar on the K10. In many situations it's nice to mix in the ambient light. If you have fast moving subjects and the ambient is quite bright then you can simply use Tv mode (or M if you also want to pick the F-stop) and pick your favorite shutter speed below 1/180s.

10-26-2010, 10:20 PM	#6
arm_jstp Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 485 Original Poster	I tried not to assume it as a bug, but when compare to one of the newer generation body like K-7, it just shows too much different. This surprised me a lot that Pentax moved back to earlier K series algorithm. May be faster shutter priority during flash shooting of the K-7 spoiled me, then I am so upset with the K-r results.

10-27-2010, 12:48 AM	#7
Conan Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 99	My K-X is like that. In P-mode it goes to high ISO and slow shutter speed. Easily fixed by going into Manual mode.

10-27-2010, 11:39 AM	#8
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	This is not a bug. The metering is just exposing for the ambient light. If you want a faster shutter speed, go into manual and set a faster shutter speed. You are smarter than the camera.

10-27-2010, 11:42 AM	#9
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by arm_jstp The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing. That's quite the conclusion.

10-27-2010, 11:45 AM	#10
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by arm_jstp The K-r algorithm during flash auto exposure make the camera unusable for flash indoor photographing. My two Canon bodies work like this in Av mode. I can assure you (as can all my clients) that the cameras are absolutely usable for "flash indoor photographing"

10-27-2010, 11:59 AM	#11
arm_jstp Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 485 Original Poster	Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting.

10-27-2010, 12:02 PM	#12
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by arm_jstp Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting. You're missing the point. You don't need to "cope" with ANYTHING you don't want. If you need a faster shutter speed to accomplish the image you have in mind, go into M and use a faster shutter speed!

10-27-2010, 12:02 PM	#13
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Originally posted by arm_jstp Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting. Is there no X mode?

10-27-2010, 12:56 PM	#14
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by SpecialK Is there no X mode? I remember "X" mode from my K10D. It seemed like a waste of space on the dial. M mode with the shutter set to 1/180s would accomplish the same thing, PLUS let you quickly use a slower shutter if you desired.

10-27-2010, 04:43 PM	#15
Conan Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 99	Originally posted by arm_jstp Thanks guy, I will try to cope with lower shutter speed during flash shooting. Put your K-X in Manual mode, set shutter speed between 1/125 to 1/180, ISO to 400, Aperture 4 or whatever your lens opening is, now give that a try.