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11-12-2010, 05:20 PM   #16
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Mystic
Many thank's for your link.
This agree my long think about the sensor, it's no better and no more bad...
It's the same in K-x/K-r

And me i absolutly power WITH batteries AA and Quyickly change.
So Ouff..i have already my K-x

Regards and thank's for this

11-13-2010, 08:09 AM   #17
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I am also a k-x user, and the explanation of this guy would be my basis for an upgrade.

save up for an ultimate upgrade, or develop more skills and acquire better glasses

QuoteOriginally posted by kp0c Quote
I think that the K-x is a perfect first DSLR camera that one can use for a long time before really needing to upgrade. Those upgrading quickly from K-x to K-r do so probably because they have a lot of spare money (but no enough for a K-5 I guess) and/or always want the new toy. IMHO, when I upgrade my K-x, I want to upgrade to a body that has more features than just being more recent. For example, dual dials, top LCD, weather sealing, micro af adjust... these are the features I want in my next camera, not just a red dot in the view finder... (although I would like to have an AF assist lamp on my K-x).
Bottom line is there is few reason to upgrade from K-x to K-r. Yes, the upgrade could be justified, but I think one would be better served by holding on to their K-x a little longer and save up for a more advance camera feature wise like the K-5.
Just my two cents, as usual.
Karl
11-16-2010, 01:06 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mystic Quote
but as I remember, no kx-kr comparison showed, that kr has an advantage in IQ.. at least to my eyes.

here is the comparisons.. to my eye kx performs better, not by much.. and maybe only at pixel level but still, better
All sizes | high-key_ISO_elevator | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

in this test it's about equal:
All sizes | low-key_ISO_elevator | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

in this test I see that kr has less dr and results are less sharp. maybe it could be because of the actual sample, but kx pictures look better..
All sizes | grey_ISO_elevator | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Thank you so much for posting the links to those side-by-side comparison images - most useful.

As far as I am concerned - there might be some absolute difference in the first two sets - but they are close enough that it is unlikely to make any real-world difference to one's photos - unless one is doing it for scientific measurements - the fact that some think the K-r is better, whereas others think the K-x is better shows that visually there probably isn't any difference worth arguing about.

The third set does seem to show a bit of advantage to the K-x - however the images shown is a bit trickier - and it may be down to a very slight focusing difference - favoring the K-x - at least with this third set there seems to be general agreement with you, that the K-x seems better - but really this may not be conclusive enough due to possible variances in the testing.

However it is enough for me to see that there is no major/noticeable improvement in image quality in the K-r over the K-x - other than the addition of ISO25600 - and I already think the ISO12800 was not really usable other than for emergencies.

Thank you very mush for posting those links comparisons
(sorry, just realized those are from devorama's iso flower series).

Last edited by UnknownVT; 11-16-2010 at 01:14 AM.
11-17-2010, 08:47 AM   #19
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I have to say as someone new to photography and just entering the frey I'm so disappointed in Pentax.. I really feel duped.. I went out on a limb to begin with in buying a Pentax.. It isn't exactly the most supported camera in the US.. I have barely gotten started just to see an upgrade come out.. why even dupe people into the K-x to begin with, just put out the K-r in the first place..

If some time had gone by I could understand it, but it feels more like they wanted to push off their experimental camera before selling the real thing.. I just really feel taken advantage of..

When my time comes to go to the next level I'm going to be real apprehensive about buying another Pentax..

11-17-2010, 10:03 AM   #20
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I knew the K-r was in the pipeline when I made the decision to buy the K-x, and I don't feel like I missed out. The only thing the K-r has that I'd wish was on my K-x (or any dslr that I use in the future) is the better lcd for ease of Live View use.

Despite that, I did not (and still don't) feel the K-r was worth the "upgrade" price over the K-x. Image quality out of the 2 is all but identical in most every case, and that money can be better used for lenses or other equipment.

Just my 2 cents on the matter
11-17-2010, 10:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by DebLewis Quote
I have to say as someone new to photography and just entering the frey I'm so disappointed in Pentax.. I really feel duped.. I went out on a limb to begin with in buying a Pentax.. It isn't exactly the most supported camera in the US.. I have barely gotten started just to see an upgrade come out.. why even dupe people into the K-x to begin with, just put out the K-r in the first place..

If some time had gone by I could understand it, but it feels more like they wanted to push off their experimental camera before selling the real thing.. I just really feel taken advantage of..

When my time comes to go to the next level I'm going to be real apprehensive about buying another Pentax..
K-x's price bracket is different from K-r. I got the K-x early in its release and while I covet the K-r features, I wouldn't have gotten all those shots between the time I bought the K-x (full price) and until I can afford the K-r (probably in 5 months from now), so I have no regrets. The IQ of the two bodies are the same. Imho just get the best you can get when you want it and enjoy it. The K-x and K-r still has a huge price difference ATM. You'll be better served buying another lens since the capabilities of these 2 bodies are not that far off. In fact right now I think K-x + a good lens is a better deal than K-r + kitlens, so you're not missing out much.

Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-17-2010 at 10:41 AM.
11-19-2010, 06:15 AM   #22
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So it seems an upgrade from K-x to K-r is not recommended by most of you, am I right? Question is, how the used prices of the K-x drop and so when it is the best time to change.
11-19-2010, 09:44 AM   #23
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Hard call to make - the new K-r seems to have addressed most of the "issues" people had with the K-x - but at a slightly larger/heavier body, and currently quite a hefty premium increase in price over the K-x street pricing.

Obviously the K-r is still new and one would expect the street price to come down eventually (there may be relatively good price drop for Black Friday/Thanksgiving) -

However it is almost "ironic" -
like Pentax are calling our "bluff" and complaints about the K-x
- and almost like saying here it is with your issues addressed
but are you willing to put your money where your..... and pay the price?
So for the K-x detractors - here's a chance to vote with your $$$'s!

However to be less cynical and more positive -
the introduction of the K-r - has made the K-x a real bargain -

I've seen the K-x with the 18-55 kit zoom for as low as $489 shipped from reputable vendors -
this is almost the price of some of the more premium compacts -
to get one of leading IQ in an APS-C sensor dSLRs regardless of price.

Just for interest I did a comparison of the K-x (originally meaning it to be a kind of "preview" of the K-r - since all the evidence so far seems to indicate that the IQ of the K-r and K-x are going to be very similar) with the current leading edge Pentax K-5, Nikon D7000 and Canon 60D - using the comparison page of the Canon 60D of dpReview.

I posted the below in another thread - but thought it was relevant here.

I wanted to see how the current leading edge dSLRs - Pentax K-5, Nikon D7000 and Canon 60D compared using the dpReview of the Canon 60D comparison -
the main shortcoming is the lack of skin tone - other than the picture of a face in the right of the target.

I included the Pentax K-x for 2 main reasons -

1) acknowledged currently as one of the best High ISO performers.
2) new K-r seems to be similar in performance - so this may give an indication of how the K-r may compare.

I do realize the K-x cannot be a 1:1 comparison since the K-x (K-r) are 12Mp vs the 16+Mp of the other leading edge dSLRs - but it was interesting/educational comparing them.

Looking at the High ISO -

ISO 6400 -






For grins I also compared at
ISO 12800 -


These new 16+Mp dSLRs are amazing with relative image quality that are visually matching the "best" 12Mp at High ISOs - the Nikon D7000 JPG engine appears to do well especially when comparing the Martini label - with the K-x a kind of second - and it seems that the K-5 noise reduction is a bit heavier and blurs away details (esp in the ISO 12800 comparisons) -
but at ISO 12800 one really ought to be working in RAW and reduce the noise using a more specialized NR program.

11-19-2010, 02:41 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by DebLewis Quote
I have to say as someone new to photography and just entering the frey I'm so disappointed in Pentax.. I really feel duped.. I went out on a limb to begin with in buying a Pentax.. It isn't exactly the most supported camera in the US.. I have barely gotten started just to see an upgrade come out.. why even dupe people into the K-x to begin with, just put out the K-r in the first place..

If some time had gone by I could understand it, but it feels more like they wanted to push off their experimental camera before selling the real thing.. I just really feel taken advantage of..

When my time comes to go to the next level I'm going to be real apprehensive about buying another Pentax..
Every manufacturer does the same thing, Nikon, Canon, everybody.

Nikon released the d3000, many people bought it, next year they release the D3100 which makes the d3000 look like a piece of crap, such is life.
11-19-2010, 07:26 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by DebLewis Quote
I have to say as someone new to photography and just entering the frey I'm so disappointed in Pentax.. I really feel duped.. I went out on a limb to begin with in buying a Pentax.. It isn't exactly the most supported camera in the US.. I have barely gotten started just to see an upgrade come out.. why even dupe people into the K-x to begin with, just put out the K-r in the first place..

If some time had gone by I could understand it, but it feels more like they wanted to push off their experimental camera before selling the real thing.. I just really feel taken advantage of..

When my time comes to go to the next level I'm going to be real apprehensive about buying another Pentax..
I'm not sure I understand how you can feel duped. 12 to 18 months is typical for a product cycle like digital cameras. And it isn't as if the k-x is a dog of a camera. It's hands-down the absolute best value camera on the market and has been for the past year. And is isn't discontinued. Today's technology isn't necessarily tomorrow's junk.

Read the interview with Ned Bunnell on theonlinephotographer and understand what Pentax is trying to do. In order to get the support you think is lacking they are trying to build a portfolio of product that ranges from the budget conscious (read k-x) to the avid enthusiast/semi-pro (read k-5). And by doing so will have what retailers in brick and mortar stores demand before they provide the shelf space and commit the inventory.

Some of what is different in the k-r probably wasn't ready to come out of the oven when the k-x was released. SAFOX IX and the better processor to be able to stack non-perfectly aligned HDR images probably were still being created two years ago when the k-x was finishing design and going through validation. Pentax didn't have two years to wait to improve their cash flow and become a Hoya bottom line contributor. Because of the k-x they are a much better-positioned company today.

The k-x is a fine tool and will serve your photographic needs well for years to come.
11-20-2010, 10:52 AM   #26
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Don P is right, they all do this, every year a new and better camera comes along. Look at all of the Cannon, and Nikon models floating out there. I bought my Kx last year for one reason. I wanted to see if I was going to want a DSLR, and how much was I going to use it? 18,000 picture and 5 new lenses later, I have my answer. I have not outgrown the Kx, but I will get more then likely get a new K7 in the coming months. (If my wife concedes then a K5). I have been taking pictures for several vineyards here in Texas, and have some of my shots being published in a book about Texas vineyards. So the Kx will get the job done. Duped, not a chance- Hooked ABSOLUTELY!!!! These are a couple of the pics for the book. All shot with the Kx, and my Tamron 18-200





11-22-2010, 01:36 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ggeorge11 Quote
Don P is right, they all do this, every year a new and better camera comes along. Look at all of the Cannon, and Nikon models floating out there. I bought my Kx last year for one reason. I wanted to see if I was going to want a DSLR, and how much was I going to use it? 18,000 picture and 5 new lenses later, I have my answer. I have not outgrown the Kx, but I will get more then likely get a new K7 in the coming months. (If my wife concedes then a K5). I have been taking pictures for several vineyards here in Texas, and have some of my shots being published in a book about Texas vineyards. So the Kx will get the job done. Duped, not a chance- Hooked ABSOLUTELY!!!! These are a couple of the pics for the book. All shot with the Kx, and my Tamron 18-200




That first grape image is really nice is that one published?
11-22-2010, 08:00 PM   #28
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Thank you ,yes sir, All 3 of these are going to be in a book being published by Panche Publishing. The book is called Spectacular Wineries of Texas. The 1st pic has a full page to itself, and the other 3 will be on a page with supporting information about Texas Legato. I was very taken back when I found out about it. Texas Legato asked me to shoot several of their events this year. I learned a ton by doing that. I have to admit also very lucky. I wound up shooting over 750 pictures over a 5 month period, and got 4 in a book, and it was never the intent. I was just using this time to practice, learn, and help out some wonderful folks. Oh and drink some of the best wine in the state, I might add! Many of the photos of the vineyard are here if you would like to look at them. If you get the chance to look there, let me know what you think.

Texas in Pixels- Joseph K. George | SmugMug
11-23-2010, 10:15 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ggeorge11 Quote
Thank you ,yes sir, All 3 of these are going to be in a book being published by Panche Publishing.
Congratulations on being published.

A point I'd like to highlight is the use of your Tamron 18-200 zoom -
which is not held in such high regard - being basically a compromise everything.

However your results show that it is more than adequate - nay, good enough to be selected for publication in a prestigious book -
not just for one shot but for three including full page.

I'll bet the editors didn't ask what lens you used -
so there was no preconceived prejudice that it was not a prime lens -
they selected on the quality of the results alone.

This really shows that in the real-world most lenses for dSLRs are more than up to the task -
and the resulting photograph is much more to do with the person behind the camera/lens than the equipment alone.

Please don't get me wrong great lenses are still great lenses and the difference is measurable.

But a monkey is not going to shoot great pictures even if it had the best dSLR and a bag full of top primes - is it?

For most non-scientific usage - most lenses are really more than good enough -
and the selection of these photos shows that even a lens that may lag many other primes and zooms on the test bench -
gives nothing away in quality - even for prestigious publications.

Well done!
11-23-2010, 10:34 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by DebLewis Quote
I have to say as someone new to photography and just entering the frey I'm so disappointed in Pentax.. I really feel duped.. I went out on a limb to begin with in buying a Pentax.. It isn't exactly the most supported camera in the US.. I have barely gotten started just to see an upgrade come out.. why even dupe people into the K-x to begin with, just put out the K-r in the first place..

If some time had gone by I could understand it, but it feels more like they wanted to push off their experimental camera before selling the real thing.. I just really feel taken advantage of..

When my time comes to go to the next level I'm going to be real apprehensive about buying another Pentax..
Your feelings are unfounded and ridiculous.

Do you feel duped when a car manufacturer comes out with a new model every year. How about new television technology? My 42" Hitachi projection was top dog with a whopping 420p resolution when I bought it. Man, I feel duped now that it's not.

First, the prices aren't even comparable. Second, if you bought it recently and were concerned about a new model, you should've done your due diligence and researched a bit. It would've been easy to find info that they were releasing the Kr. Finally, if you purchased it less recent than 4 months ago, you have nothing to complain about. It's technology. If you don't realize that technology advances at an accelerated rate, then you've had your head in the sand for a very long time.

Enjoy your Kx and stop worrying about Pentax's conspiracy to bamboozle you out of a few dollars.
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