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02-17-2011, 06:58 AM   #166
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@ Matso I definitely will let everyone know my outcome once I get a chance to properly test it. Should post my findings on Tuesday.

02-17-2011, 08:41 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by 3drives Quote
Ok, I took this image with the same settings as the above. I used the 2 second delay shutter timer in both pictures with the camera on the table. The centre focus point was on Liberty Hall and Buffalo Trace.
Liberty Hall? Buffalo Trace? Holy shit man, I could barely decipher those printed words on your subject. But that doesn't mean that some specific cause can automatically be implied. What really were your criteria specs, and objectives?

Main problem is that many aspects of your "test" procedure are really too inadequate to be taken seriously. I always feel that these things are really best left to professional trained techs who can perform it under predefined standard conditions, then provide service if deemed necessary on the results of their findings.

Still, for a perhaps rough but simple to perform comparison for your own indications and satisfaction, can I suggest taking a same pic like you did, except twice: One as normal using the camera's AF; and another exact same equipments, settings and conditions but simply shift the slide on the left-side of the body to MF position and give it your best attempt at manual only focus.

I'd really like to see your own judgements and conclusions after doing that.
And without trying to pre-empt any conclusions, usually find that for myself anyway, it can provide some informative, and even helpful surprises. Beats reading between the lines anyway.

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-17-2011 at 08:51 AM.
02-17-2011, 09:56 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
Main problem is that many aspects of your "test" procedure are really too inadequate to be taken seriously. I always feel that these things are really best left to professional trained techs who can perform it under predefined standard conditions,
Respectfully, not sure I agree with this. As far as I can tell, under the "test" conditions - 2sec delay, fast-ish shutter speed, and with the camera stabilised on a table - the other causes that could have made this out of focus were sufficiently eliminated. The text should be clearer and would be if this had been taken under the same set-up in daylight.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
Still, for a perhaps rough but simple to perform comparison for your own indications and satisfaction, can I suggest taking a same pic like you did, except twice: One as normal using the camera's AF; and another exact same equipments, settings and conditions but simply shift the slide on the left-side of the body to MF position and give it your best attempt at manual only focus.
I would also suggest taking the same exact shot with LV. If you've got the FF problem, it will be self-evident as the LV shot will be in focus. I would also suggest taking a few shots with an object about 3-4cm in front of the target AF object. It'll be nice and crisp if you've got FF.

I really hope Pentax sort this out. It's such a great camera otherwise. Nothing would make me happier than to go and buy back the camera I regretfully returned the other day.
02-17-2011, 11:11 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matso Quote
I really hope Pentax sort this out. It's such a great camera otherwise. Nothing would make me happier than to go and buy back the camera I regretfully returned the other day.
You obviously returned it either, because it was faulty and so couldn't meet your needs, and~or you didn't have faith that there could be any forthcoming solution for you in an acceptable to your needs timeframe.

That's not a crime and definitely nothing to lament or need to wallow over and regret.
There are plenty of other fantastic cameras available out there and one is sure to satisfy. You're not missing out, and all manufacturers in the industry won't miss out either. A win win all 'round.

Only brand controlled droids would slur at you if you didn't choose what they think is the only right; take no notice, it's your money, it's your life.

.R. -- "It's all about the journey."

02-17-2011, 09:45 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
Liberty Hall? Buffalo Trace? Holy shit man, I could barely decipher those printed words on your subject.
First of all, I now realize those letters are too small for you to decipher, especially in 1024 x 768. I am not saying those are tack sharp in actual image size, but may be - 1 or - 2 correction in focus would be enough. I thought I was satisfied with them.


QuoteQuote:
But that doesn't mean that some specific cause can automatically be implied. What really were your criteria specs, and objectives?
My objective was to be able to see if the printed letters were sharp. They were not perfect sharp but they were atleast very close to being.

QuoteQuote:
Main problem is that many aspects of your "test" procedure are really too inadequate to be taken seriously.
I tested the camera in conditions where I wanted satisfactory images to me.

QuoteQuote:
I always feel that these things are really best left to professional trained techs who can perform it under predefined standard conditions, then provide service if deemed necessary on the results of their findings.
Right, but it is testing one's own camera that we are trying to do. Not a batch test.


QuoteQuote:
Still, for a perhaps rough but simple to perform comparison for your own indications and satisfaction, can I suggest taking a same pic like you did, except twice: One as normal using the camera's AF; and another exact same equipments, settings and conditions but simply shift the slide on the left-side of the body to MF position and give it your best attempt at manual only focus.

I'd really like to see your own judgements and conclusions after doing that.
And without trying to pre-empt any conclusions, usually find that for myself anyway, it can provide some informative, and even helpful surprises. Beats reading between the lines anyway.

.R.
I am sure manual focus will be worse than this.
02-18-2011, 09:14 AM   #171
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I have tests done on small objects from a distance of ~ 1 1/2 feet. These pics were taken handheld, no timer used either. The previous paper test done above under table lamp, the lamp was probably just 1/2 foot above the paper. For the current tests, the 3 lamps are mucher higher and probably 5 feet above the subjects.

I selected Lays box with colored letters and Vaseline which has white background - I don't know much about contrast but if there is selective difference, it should show up here as I chose 2 different types of colors.

I have taken tests of both in viewfinder and liveview with my 18-55mm at wide angle end and tele end.

Pic # 1: Focus on A of Stax, 18mm viewfinder, tungsten light WB

Pic # 2: same settings as above but this is live view.

Pic # 3: Same settings, view finder but focus on e of vaseline this time.

Pic # 4: same settings, live view with focus on e of vaseline.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
02-18-2011, 09:18 AM   #172
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Now, 55mm.

Pic # 1: 55mm, VF, Tungsten WB, focus on A of stax.

Pic # 2: 55mm, LV, tungsten WB, focus on E of vaseline.

Pic # 3: 55mm, VF, tungsten WB, focus on A of stax.

Pic # 4: 55mm, LV, Tungsten WB, focus on E of vaseline.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 
02-18-2011, 09:34 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by 3drives Quote
Now, 55mm.

Pic # 1: 55mm, VF, Tungsten WB, focus on A of stax.

Pic # 2: 55mm, LV, tungsten WB, focus on E of vaseline.

Pic # 3: 55mm, VF, tungsten WB, focus on A of stax.

Pic # 4: 55mm, LV, Tungsten WB, focus on E of vaseline.
Did I read right that test 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 are identical? or are 2 of those shots AWB instead of Tungsten?

02-18-2011, 10:51 AM   #174
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I'm so amused to see people who try to convince themselves that their camera is so good.

3drives,
A real focus test needs an AF chart, a 40W or 60W tungsten bulb (uncontaminated with another source of light), an open aperture and 18 mm focal on the lens (speaking about the kit lens).
Look here and try to reproduce the conditions from the first and second photo. I bet your Kr will FF. And the FF will be evident.

By the way, in your pictures taken at 18mm, I don't really see where the focus is or isn't. Neither a little Dof I cannot distinguished. Seems to me that the resizing process altered informations. Or maybe the scene is inadequate.

Before I asked my money back, the Pentax dealer said me that they received a new lot/serie of KR, tested by them and ALL suffers of FF in tungsten (not necessary so low light). On the contrary, Kr focuses better in low light.

PS: I don't want to say bad divinations, but I think Safox 9 is a bull..it. Faster, but not so accurate. The K5, even with the + sensor has ff problems.

Last edited by ursamajor; 02-18-2011 at 11:10 AM.
02-18-2011, 11:42 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by ursamajor Quote
I'm so amused to see people who try to convince themselves that their camera is so good.
And what about the ones who go out of their way to do the opposite?
02-18-2011, 11:47 AM   #176
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You mean the impartials? Or maybe those who are not fanboys?
02-18-2011, 12:10 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by mp29k Quote
Did I read right that test 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 are identical? or are 2 of those shots AWB instead of Tungsten?
No AWB. Only Tungsten WB. The EXIF data above actually shows Manual WB, so why are you confused so much?

Yes, the test 1 and 3 are identical in that they are used with viewfinder and 2 and 4 are shot with live view.

Last edited by 3drives; 02-18-2011 at 12:20 PM.
02-18-2011, 12:11 PM - 2 Likes   #178
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Watching the K-r ff "debate" is just too funny. Here's a metaphor for what I'm reading about this issue:

The K-r is like a really nice car which only makes right-hand turns.

- The people who only ever make right turns are trivializing the problem and calling the left-turners a bunch of whiners who are simply looking for problems.

- The people who only ever make left turns say the car has a major defect and demand a recall right now!

- The people who make both right and left turns and are Pentax fanboys admit that there is a problem, but they are really enjoying their nice new car with its nice leather interior and great sound system and can simply work around the problem by making three right hand turns instead of a left.

- The people who make both right and left turns and are not necessarily fanboys are wondering if maybe they should return their car to the dealer... They can be heard muttering, "A car should be able to turn left and right, yes? This is true, yes? ...hold on, let me try making a left turn again. Yep, still broken. What to do... What to do..."

EDIT: And then there are the chickens who know full well that there is a problem but are too afraid of the K-r FF problem bankrupting Pentax to tolerate discussion of the topic. Can't forget those folks!
02-18-2011, 12:17 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by ursamajor Quote
I'm so amused to see people who try to convince themselves that their camera is so good.

3drives,
A real focus test needs an AF chart, a 40W or 60W tungsten bulb (uncontaminated with another source of light), an open aperture and 18 mm focal on the lens (speaking about the kit lens).
Look here and try to reproduce the conditions from the first and second photo. I bet your Kr will FF. And the FF will be evident.

By the way, in your pictures taken at 18mm, I don't really see where the focus is or isn't. Neither a little Dof I cannot distinguished. Seems to me that the resizing process altered informations. Or maybe the scene is inadequate.

Before I asked my money back, the Pentax dealer said me that they received a new lot/serie of KR, tested by them and ALL suffers of FF in tungsten (not necessary so low light). On the contrary, Kr focuses better in low light.

PS: I don't want to say bad divinations, but I think Safox 9 is a bull..it. Faster, but not so accurate. The K5, even with the + sensor has ff problems.
I am not convincing myself or anyone here either to say this camera is perfect. I just took the test to see if I got a lemon, I am convinced this is not a lemon. I even said there may be a -1 or -2 error, if at all there is.

What I am convinced with myself is this camera is right for me. I will do the damn perfect test with the focus chart and post the results just for the sake of it. But, my photo conditions will be the ones like I tested and posted above. Actually my subjects will be a lot bigger and I won't fret if it focusses on one eye instead of another.

If the resizing made it inadequate it actually worsened the image here. So, if you look at my full size image that is not posted, it is actually better.

I am not a Pentax fan boy, this is my 1st Pentax camera. This camera was brought to my attention because of the K-x combo deals that are in the market right now.
02-18-2011, 03:58 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by abcdave Quote
The K-r is like a really nice car which only makes right-hand turns.

- The people who only ever make right turns are trivializing the problem and calling the left-turners a bunch of whiners who are simply looking for problems.

- The people who only ever make left turns say the car has a major defect and demand a recall right now!

- The people who make both right and left turns and are Pentax fanboys admit that there is a problem, but they are really enjoying their nice new car with its nice leather interior and great sound system and can simply work around the problem by making three right hand turns instead of a left.

- The people who make both right and left turns and are not necessarily fanboys are wondering if maybe they should return their car to the dealer... They can be heard muttering, "A car should be able to turn left and right, yes? This is true, yes? ...hold on, let me try making a left turn again. Yep, still broken. What to do... What to do..."

EDIT: And then there are the chickens who know full well that there is a problem but are too afraid of the K-r FF problem bankrupting Pentax to tolerate discussion of the topic. Can't forget those folks!
ROTFAPML !! Stop it, Dave, my coffee's now everywhere..

That was a true gem in the ether!


[ http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/19/fanboyism-and-brand-loyalty/ ]

.R.

"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul" -- C.G.Jung

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-18-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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