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01-31-2011, 09:49 PM   #76
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Closer is better, I read...

QuoteOriginally posted by cloud016 Quote
testing af should with certain distance, not the close up distance!
Note - Camera-to-subject distance should ideally be no less than 50 times the focal length of the lens. For a 50mm lens, that would be at least 2.5 meters (25m for a 500mm)
Every site I've gone to suggests the subject be as close as possible. For example, "When shooting your test pics, you need to be close enough that the test chart somewhat more than fills the frame. Get nice and close." Moving from two feet to seven feet would expand the depth of field, but why would that show FF?
Brian

01-31-2011, 09:51 PM   #77
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ursa, do us a favor and give us the name and contact address of this "guy from Pentax." I'd love to hear his explanation of how a good K-r is the aberration,
Brian
01-31-2011, 09:59 PM   #78
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Yes, with pleasure. Can't you sleep without it?
I suppose you speak romanian... But I'm sure they speak english.
http://www.focus94.ro/contact
Focus94 is the Pentax direct representative in my country. My camera was sent here, they agreed it has FF and I must wait 2-3 weeks (I wanted white and must be ordered) for the replacement or money back, if I'll be not satisfied with the new one.

QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Moving from two feet to seven feet would expand the depth of field, but why would that show FF?
Just try it!

Last edited by ursamajor; 01-31-2011 at 10:47 PM.
02-01-2011, 12:28 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Every site I've gone to suggests the subject be as close as possible. For example, "When shooting your test pics, you need to be close enough that the test chart somewhat more than fills the frame. Get nice and close." Moving from two feet to seven feet would expand the depth of field, but why would that show FF?
Brian
FHPhotographer, I noticed these days that when I test my focusing from close distance with, let's say 40mm at 2.8, the focus is almost accurate. When I move further away the FF gets more and more visible. This is just an observation, I do not claim it to be accurate, but I am just sharing my thoughts.
I really hope not all K-Rs have this problem, that would mean that when I get my international warranty from pentax US, the Germany pentax service will be able to fix it, as the problem will be hardware. If it is firmware, than I do not know what to say. Why Pentax just do not make an official statement... So dissapointing - whether some or all K-Rs have this issue, they need to make a statment!!!

02-01-2011, 05:50 AM   #80
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Full disclosure, I don't know what I'm talking about.

But I'm worried about this issue and the possible fix being to adjust differently depending on the light. People think, oh the camera can just use the WB info, but if I'm not mistaken, that is calculated AFTER capture, that is, after the focus has been decided. Don't the SAFOX+ bodies have an extra sensor specifically for this?

I'm just stumped as to why the K-x focuses fine with no wavelength sensor.
02-01-2011, 06:31 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by lavascript Quote
Full disclosure, I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm just stumped as to why the K-x focuses fine with no wavelength sensor.
SAFOX XIII?

K-5 (with SAFOX IX+) also is reported to have FF issue, even with the secondary light sensor.

One would expect the later model should be better or at least at par with the older one.

But hey, it focuses faster. Both in phase and contrast detect.

It would be nice if Pentax resolves this somehow though.
02-01-2011, 10:45 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by GrinMode Quote
t would be nice if Pentax resolves this somehow though.
Can we all at least agree on THIS? :P
02-01-2011, 11:33 AM   #83
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lava,Grin,

Sure, what do we do if the Pentax resolution is a statement that this is not manufacturing defect?

Remember that all we know is that some people are reporting a problem; what we don't know is how many of those reports are accurate, how many are operator error, how many official warranty claims have been submitted, and, how many units have been sold. Take all those unknowable data together, Pentax could easily state reports/warranty claims do not exceed whatever standard devitation Pentax sets for sampling error (another thing you will never know) .

With the data the manufacturer has and the consumer does not, we could get an official resolution that this is not a problem at all, and if it is a problem it is not a manufacturing problem, and claims could then be excluded from warranty coverage. Plus anyone who is working individually with a retailer for an exchange/refund etc would be out in the cold.

I know how this works; one of the things I did in Public Relations was design crisis management positions for businesses that would be so carefully hedged that consumers might end up grateful they didn't have to pay the business to resolve their problem. Be careful what you wish for,
Brian


Last edited by FHPhotographer; 02-01-2011 at 11:43 AM.
02-01-2011, 11:52 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Sure, but if you assume some folks do have this artificial light FF problem due to a random manufacturing defect, what do those folks do if the Pentax resolution is a statement that this is not manufacturing defect?
I'm sure that Pentax knows about the issue. The ball is in their court. If they (oficially) denies the issue, they are crooks. Anyway, even without an official statement, they accepted my camera back and agreed that it has FF issue. For now, I'm satisfied with this solution. I expect my (new) camera back, but I'll ask them to test it before they send me.

QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Remember that all you know is that some people are reporting a problem; what you don't know is how many of those reports are accurate, how many are operator error, how many official warranty claims have been submitted, and, how many units have been sold. Take all those unknowable data together, Pentax might be able to show that the problem reports/warranty claims do not exceed whatever standard devitation Pentax sets for sampling error (another thing you will never know).
There are enough reported cases to see that the issue IS real. Let's suppose that not all knows how to test a camera, but maybe (in fact, certainly) they are even few who know.
02-01-2011, 03:32 PM - 1 Like   #85
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Pentax Germany statement, and my (partial) apology

QuoteOriginally posted by ursamajor Quote
I'm sure that Pentax knows about the issue. The ball is in their court.
Here's a message that appeared in the dpreview.com Pentax SLR Talk forum:

"Das von Ihnen beschriebene Fokusproblem ist uns bekannt. Wir arbeiten derzeit mit Hochdruck an einer softwareseitigen Lösung des Problems. Sobald ein Update für dieses Problem verfügbar ist, werden wir es über unsere Homepage veröffentlichen. Wir bitten Sie daher um etwas Geduld.
Wir hoffen Ihnen mit unserer Antwort behilflich gewesen zu sein."


For those who don't read German, here's one translation:

" The focus problem described by you is known to us. We work currently with high pressure on a software-sided solution of the problem. As soon as an update is available for this problem, we will publish it about our homepage. We ask you, hence, for some patience."

If this an accurate message (let's not ignore that this is third-hand internet "fact" that may, or may not, be verifiable) then it looks like a "focus problem" could exist for some K-r cameras. But then, I never said it didn't exist, I simply said I don't have this problem with my K-r and that it does not apply to all K-rs (or perhaps even to a statistically significant percentage ). Still, if I may have been too doubtful of the complaints, and over zealous in my criticism of some forum folk and how they presented those complaints, I do apologize.

That being said, I assume this is the same general comment found on other non-English language sites? If so, then perhaps it's time for those with, and without, this FF problem to band together as multiple signatories to a letter we can send to the various Pentax regional operations and directly to Hoya. It can't hurt, and maybe it will help,
Brian
02-01-2011, 10:47 PM   #86
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OK, your camera is perfect. Maybe you're lucky. Like I said, when I tested with bottles and batteries, I had no problems.
Use a focus diagram (see bellow) or do what our friend said:
QuoteOriginally posted by cloud016 Quote
FH, could you take some 'real life' shots like portrait or more distinct subject? no offence, but your sample was took at 40mm/f5.6 on a complex texture and maybe at very close range.
that`s not easy to distinguish.

Last edited by ursamajor; 02-01-2011 at 10:53 PM.
02-01-2011, 11:37 PM   #87
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ursa,
Thanks for the link. If you've missed it, see this thread.

And just for the record, I do speak a very few words of Romanian. My grandparents were from small villages outside Rădăuţi and Brasov. It really is a small world.
Brian
02-01-2011, 11:40 PM   #88
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cloud16,
In case you missed this thread I posted, it speaks to your "get some distance" comments,
Brian
02-01-2011, 11:49 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
ursa,
And just for the record, I do speak a very few words of Romanian. My grandparents were from small villages outside Rădăuţi and Brasov. It really is a small world.
Brian
Wow, nice to meet you, FH. Salutări și bucurii, ție și părinților/bunicilor!

Concerning the FF issue, I don't make a personal crusade against Pentax. But as customers, I believe we deserve good products. And I can say that I allways was against the "talibans" and fanboys... It's not your case. You're a wise guy. You realized you're wrong and say it and this is first step to wisdom.

Last edited by ursamajor; 02-02-2011 at 12:13 AM.
02-02-2011, 12:50 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Here's a message that appeared in the dpreview.com Pentax SLR Talk forum:

"Das von Ihnen beschriebene Fokusproblem ist uns bekannt. Wir arbeiten derzeit mit Hochdruck an einer softwareseitigen Lösung des Problems. Sobald ein Update für dieses Problem verfügbar ist, werden wir es über unsere Homepage veröffentlichen. Wir bitten Sie daher um etwas Geduld.
Wir hoffen Ihnen mit unserer Antwort behilflich gewesen zu sein."


For those who don't read German, here's one translation:

" The focus problem described by you is known to us. We work currently with high pressure on a software-sided solution of the problem. As soon as an update is available for this problem, we will publish it about our homepage. We ask you, hence, for some patience."

If this an accurate message (let's not ignore that this is third-hand internet "fact" that may, or may not, be verifiable) then it looks like a "focus problem" could exist for some K-r cameras. But then, I never said it didn't exist, I simply said I don't have this problem with my K-r and that it does not apply to all K-rs (or perhaps even to a statistically significant percentage ). Still, if I may have been too doubtful of the complaints, and over zealous in my criticism of some forum folk and how they presented those complaints, I do apologize.

That being said, I assume this is the same general comment found on other non-English language sites? If so, then perhaps it's time for those with, and without, this FF problem to band together as multiple signatories to a letter we can send to the various Pentax regional operations and directly to Hoya. It can't hurt, and maybe it will help,
Brian

FH, I personally exept your apology. I might have been little harsh when replying to you, hence I apologise as well! However, as I said, this whole FF issue makes me uneasy, as I spent money not only on the K-R but on limited lenses as well, and for a second month they are unusable for the 60% of the things I shoot! And all this after I sold my Canon 5D...
Now, if this is a firmware problem, there is no way it is not in all K-Rs. There is the possibility, that in some cases it is more prominent as a bad calibration of the sensor might be adding to the firmware FF issue. I think my K-R is like that - the firmware FF issue (if there is such, but I think there is), plus bad calibration of the sensor. So, when I receive my international warranty from Pentax US I will send my K-R for calibration anyway and then wait for the firmware fix...
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