Yet another K-r AF test (with both 1.00 and 1.01)

PastorOfMuppets · 02-11-2011, 10:32 PM

Yeah, good point. I am really disappointed. Especially since I am about to buy a Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro lens. I'm afraid it is going to magnify the problem.

kostadinov · 02-11-2011, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by ursamajor

"a tenth of a milimeter" back focus on D70, can you compare with fifty centimeter or more on Kr? Oops!

There was a problem in the first two of seven D70s I've used. The focus calibration was off by about a tenth of a millimeter.

He is talking about focus calibration, not the focus offset....50 centimeters are 5000 times 1 tenth of a millimeter.....

Anyways...the strangest thing to me is that the FF problem is apparent with my DAL 18-55 and not there at all with DAL 55-300.
I took many shots with different test charts and real pictures and the result was always the same.....I can recreate the FF problem with 18-55 only. DAL 55-300..never failed to focus correctly where I wanted it to focus.

ursamajor · 02-11-2011, 11:19 PM

You're right.
Anyway, the in-camera calibration will not compensate the tungsten FF. Even if it do it on tungsten, it would be uncalibrated on other WB settings.

Andresin · 02-13-2011, 07:08 AM

I've now tested some more and it seems like my FF problem is also artificial light dependant. It's fine in day light. The in camera AF adjustment is not enough to fix the problem and as already pointed out that also screws up AF in daylight. I've contacted the store and they referred me to Pentax's authorized service shop. I'll be contacting them next week and hear what they have to say.

mrjamesabels · 02-13-2011, 04:51 PM

Hopefully the new firmware coming out will fix this widespread issue. I'd wait for the coming firmware update before sending in your camera. They have yet to even touch my camera yet and its almost a month. Waiting on part. What part? A software adjustment. Thats all they say. I bet its actually the firmware update that supposedly will fix this FF issue.

Hypocorism · 02-14-2011, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by mrjamesabels

Hopefully the new firmware coming out will fix this widespread issue. I'd wait for the coming firmware update before sending in your camera. They have yet to even touch my camera yet and its almost a month. Waiting on part. What part? A software adjustment. Thats all they say. I bet its actually the firmware update that supposedly will fix this FF issue.

I hope you're wrong and I fear you're right.

Makes business sense that they'd want to keep it hush-hush and try the firmware route first, and hope that will sufficiently quell the storm. Because the other option; mass Recall, is horrific expensive for them, and for customers too.

.R. -- Happy that the sky isn't tungsten lit so I can still get photos of those Black Helicopters out there with my K-r.

mrjamesabels · 02-15-2011, 03:03 PM

So CRIS is done repairing my camera and its on its way to arrive on Monday. So maybe they didn't need a firmware adjustment.
We will see.

abcdave · 02-15-2011, 10:27 PM

So this last weekend I was expected to photograph a birthday party and was specifically asked to bring my "fancy" camera. Again, indoors and in the evening... What to do, what to do... Manual exposure just wasn't going to cut it because kids don't sit still long enough for me to do all the trial and error required for me to dial-in the perfect settings (admittedly, inexperience on my part carries much of the blame). I could only see one way out: blow the dust off the AF540 flash I used to use with my K100DS. Let's just say, I'm learning a much deeper appreciation for that flash. When used properly, it really is a fantastic piece of gear. I got some outstanding shots that day and on a personal level the four hours of practice went a long way.

Hypocorism · 02-15-2011, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by abcdave

I could only see one way out: blow the dust off the AF540 flash I used to use with my K100DS. Let's just say, I'm learning a much deeper appreciation for that flash. When used properly, it really is a fantastic piece of gear. I got some outstanding shots that day and on a personal level the four hours of practice went a long way.

Good point. I have 2 much cheaper flash units, which otherwise serve well for what they are, and find I can never get to that same promise land where the flash light (temperature) can substitute for the prevailing ambient, fully and seamlessly cooperating with AF etc., all in a sweet no hassles automated way.

So I'm beginning to see your way, though have always been reluctant to make the plunge because Pentax flash system is reputedly inferior to others. Such a pity that a Metz 58 or an AF540 is so expensive to entice entry too, and their lesser models have just enough various shortcomings to dissuade as a serious option.

.R.

Matso · 02-16-2011, 03:34 AM

@mrjamesabels -
Very interested to know whether they were able to fix the problem. Would you mind updating this thread once you've got your K-r back?

For the time being, I returned my second K-r to the retailer and am going to wait for a few weeks to see whether a fix - firmware or hardware - emerges, before deciding whether or not to move onto a different model (K-x?) or, although I'd rather not, a different brand (D3100, 550D?)

abcdave · 02-16-2011, 11:32 AM

@Hypocorism
I really struggled with the color temperature and blown out highlights in the beginning, too. Please forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir, but learning how to properly bounce the flash off the walls and ceiling made a world of difference for me. Nowadays, I wouldn't even consider using a non-swivel head flash unless it was an off-camera slave. I got pretty good at bouncing light with the K100DS, but the unpleasant colors were still prevalent. Because of this, I was trying to entirely eliminate the flash by switching over to the K-r. The other big factor which greatly helped me over the weekend is that the auto white-balance of the K-r is outstanding. It is producing vastly superior color rendition under bounced flash conditions than my K100DS ever did. Now that I know that the colors and FF are no longer a problem while using the flash, I have a viable (and fully automatic if need be) work-around. It sure has made waiting for the FF solution much more tolerable.

As for the cost, I bought my AF540FGZ used on Craigslist for $250 U.S. It has an ugly scratch on the body, but I could care less as it has functioned perfectly for me. It is more than adequate and I couldn't be happier with the flash. Someday, I'd still like to temporarily get my hands on a Metz just so that I can see for myself the difference between the two.

3drives · 02-16-2011, 10:54 PM

My AF test in aperture mode with tungsten wb below lamp taken with camera on the table, lens DAL 18-55mm. Focus was on the cell phone LCD.

ursamajor · 02-17-2011, 01:19 AM

If your focus was on the phone LCD screen, you did in vain the test. The colour of the screen canceled the effect of the ambiental tungsten light. Use a neutral object to focus on it. Better use an AF diagram, a short focal (18 mm, as in your photo) and an open aperture.

3drives · 02-17-2011, 04:01 AM

Is the test you all guys doing in the Aperture mode? Do I need to follow any particular metering or exposure setting too?

Yes, I used the closest mm 18mm and widest aperture 3.5 on the lens.

My picture sharpness was better in the actual original photo. In order to be able to post to this forum, I had to scale down the above picture to 1024 x 768.

I will use a neutral object and post the results to you.

3drives · 02-17-2011, 04:13 AM

Ok, I took this image with the same settings as the above. I used the 2 second delay shutter timer in both pictures with the camera on the table. The centre focus point was on Liberty Hall and Buffalo Trace.

02-11-2011, 11:19 PM	#153
ursamajor Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 242	You're right. Anyway, the in-camera calibration will not compensate the tungsten FF. Even if it do it on tungsten, it would be uncalibrated on other WB settings. Last edited by ursamajor; 02-12-2011 at 04:10 AM.

02-15-2011, 11:48 PM	#159
Hypocorism Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne .au Posts: 623	Originally posted by abcdave I could only see one way out: blow the dust off the AF540 flash I used to use with my K100DS. Let's just say, I'm learning a much deeper appreciation for that flash. When used properly, it really is a fantastic piece of gear. I got some outstanding shots that day and on a personal level the four hours of practice went a long way. Good point. I have 2 much cheaper flash units, which otherwise serve well for what they are, and find I can never get to that same promise land where the flash light (temperature) can substitute for the prevailing ambient, fully and seamlessly cooperating with AF etc., all in a sweet no hassles automated way. So I'm beginning to see your way, though have always been reluctant to make the plunge because Pentax flash system is reputedly inferior to others. Such a pity that a Metz 58 or an AF540 is so expensive to entice entry too, and their lesser models have just enough various shortcomings to dissuade as a serious option. .R. Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-16-2011 at 02:00 AM.

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02-11-2011, 10:32 PM	#151
PastorOfMuppets Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: West Texas Posts: 30	Yeah, good point. I am really disappointed. Especially since I am about to buy a Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro lens. I'm afraid it is going to magnify the problem.

02-11-2011, 10:50 PM	#152
kostadinov New Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Woodstock Photos: Albums Posts: 14	Originally posted by ursamajor "a tenth of a milimeter" back focus on D70, can you compare with fifty centimeter or more on Kr? Oops! There was a problem in the first two of seven D70s I've used. The focus calibration was off by about a tenth of a millimeter. He is talking about focus calibration, not the focus offset....50 centimeters are 5000 times 1 tenth of a millimeter..... Anyways...the strangest thing to me is that the FF problem is apparent with my DAL 18-55 and not there at all with DAL 55-300. I took many shots with different test charts and real pictures and the result was always the same.....I can recreate the FF problem with 18-55 only. DAL 55-300..never failed to focus correctly where I wanted it to focus.

02-13-2011, 07:08 AM	#154
Andresin New Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Stockholm Posts: 20	I've now tested some more and it seems like my FF problem is also artificial light dependant. It's fine in day light. The in camera AF adjustment is not enough to fix the problem and as already pointed out that also screws up AF in daylight. I've contacted the store and they referred me to Pentax's authorized service shop. I'll be contacting them next week and hear what they have to say.

02-13-2011, 04:51 PM	#155
mrjamesabels Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NEW JERSEY USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 198	Hopefully the new firmware coming out will fix this widespread issue. I'd wait for the coming firmware update before sending in your camera. They have yet to even touch my camera yet and its almost a month. Waiting on part. What part? A software adjustment. Thats all they say. I bet its actually the firmware update that supposedly will fix this FF issue.

02-14-2011, 05:38 AM	#156
Hypocorism Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne .au Posts: 623	Originally posted by mrjamesabels Hopefully the new firmware coming out will fix this widespread issue. I'd wait for the coming firmware update before sending in your camera. They have yet to even touch my camera yet and its almost a month. Waiting on part. What part? A software adjustment. Thats all they say. I bet its actually the firmware update that supposedly will fix this FF issue. I hope you're wrong and I fear you're right. Makes business sense that they'd want to keep it hush-hush and try the firmware route first, and hope that will sufficiently quell the storm. Because the other option; mass Recall, is horrific expensive for them, and for customers too. .R. -- Happy that the sky isn't tungsten lit so I can still get photos of those Black Helicopters out there with my K-r.

02-15-2011, 03:03 PM	#157
mrjamesabels Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NEW JERSEY USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 198	So CRIS is done repairing my camera and its on its way to arrive on Monday. So maybe they didn't need a firmware adjustment. We will see.

02-15-2011, 10:27 PM	#158
abcdave Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bartlesville, OK Posts: 57	So this last weekend I was expected to photograph a birthday party and was specifically asked to bring my "fancy" camera. Again, indoors and in the evening... What to do, what to do... Manual exposure just wasn't going to cut it because kids don't sit still long enough for me to do all the trial and error required for me to dial-in the perfect settings (admittedly, inexperience on my part carries much of the blame). I could only see one way out: blow the dust off the AF540 flash I used to use with my K100DS. Let's just say, I'm learning a much deeper appreciation for that flash. When used properly, it really is a fantastic piece of gear. I got some outstanding shots that day and on a personal level the four hours of practice went a long way.

02-16-2011, 03:34 AM	#160
Matso Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: London Posts: 26	@mrjamesabels - Very interested to know whether they were able to fix the problem. Would you mind updating this thread once you've got your K-r back? For the time being, I returned my second K-r to the retailer and am going to wait for a few weeks to see whether a fix - firmware or hardware - emerges, before deciding whether or not to move onto a different model (K-x?) or, although I'd rather not, a different brand (D3100, 550D?)

02-16-2011, 11:32 AM	#161
abcdave Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Bartlesville, OK Posts: 57	@Hypocorism I really struggled with the color temperature and blown out highlights in the beginning, too. Please forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir, but learning how to properly bounce the flash off the walls and ceiling made a world of difference for me. Nowadays, I wouldn't even consider using a non-swivel head flash unless it was an off-camera slave. I got pretty good at bouncing light with the K100DS, but the unpleasant colors were still prevalent. Because of this, I was trying to entirely eliminate the flash by switching over to the K-r. The other big factor which greatly helped me over the weekend is that the auto white-balance of the K-r is outstanding. It is producing vastly superior color rendition under bounced flash conditions than my K100DS ever did. Now that I know that the colors and FF are no longer a problem while using the flash, I have a viable (and fully automatic if need be) work-around. It sure has made waiting for the FF solution much more tolerable. As for the cost, I bought my AF540FGZ used on Craigslist for $250 U.S. It has an ugly scratch on the body, but I could care less as it has functioned perfectly for me. It is more than adequate and I couldn't be happier with the flash. Someday, I'd still like to temporarily get my hands on a Metz just so that I can see for myself the difference between the two.

02-17-2011, 01:19 AM	#163
ursamajor Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 242	If your focus was on the phone LCD screen, you did in vain the test. The colour of the screen canceled the effect of the ambiental tungsten light. Use a neutral object to focus on it. Better use an AF diagram, a short focal (18 mm, as in your photo) and an open aperture.

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02-17-2011, 04:01 AM	#164
3drives Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 60	Is the test you all guys doing in the Aperture mode? Do I need to follow any particular metering or exposure setting too? Yes, I used the closest mm 18mm and widest aperture 3.5 on the lens. My picture sharpness was better in the actual original photo. In order to be able to post to this forum, I had to scale down the above picture to 1024 x 768. I will use a neutral object and post the results to you.