Exchange vs repair

lavascript · 01-18-2011, 11:01 AM

All this is hypothetical, as I don't even have my K-r yet. But I plan on using it quite a bit with AF in tungsten or mixed tungsten/CFL light, so if my K-r exhibits the dreaded FF issue, it would be hugely noticeable in my shots. Should I exchange it, or should I send it to Pentax for repair?

Retailer
Pro: Fast turnaround
Con: Might just get another FF-ing body

Pentax:
Pro: Guaranteed* fixed
Con: 3 weeks

Any thoughts or past experiences?

* I'm not implying that there's an actual guarantee, just that the probability of the problem being fixed is very, very high.

wlachan · 01-18-2011, 02:34 PM

How about don't get a Pentax at all if low EV AF is what you will need?

bigal1000 · 01-18-2011, 02:49 PM

Yea,makes no sense to buy it and return it?

lavascript · 01-18-2011, 03:02 PM

Wait, what? The Pentax Forum people are telling me to NOT get a Pentax? I have to say, I gave the 60D a hard look, but I ultimately settled on the K-r for:

Higher overall IQ (isn't that what really matters?)
Lower price
Less hassle (don't have to sell my lenses)

Plus, I'm not totally PO'd at my K10D's AF speed in low-EV, just wishing for some improvement.

So what's the deal? Why are you pushing me AWAY from Pentax??

Obviously, I'm aware of the FF issue, but from what I was able to gather, it's a QC issue that some people just don't have and is fixable.

krebsy75 · 01-18-2011, 03:16 PM

This is a software issue. There is no doubt about it. Getting your K-r repaired for front focus problems in tungsten light is just going to result in disappointment.

Having said all of that, it could be a limitation of the hardware as well, but I really doubt it. I just don't see this being a quality-control problem.

Until someone provies me otherwise, I'm sticking with this hypothesis.

lavascript · 01-18-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by krebsy97

This is a software issue. There is no doubt about it. Getting your K-r repaired for front focus problems in tungsten light is just going to result in disappointment.

Having said all of that, it could be a limitation of the hardware as well, but I really doubt it. I just don't see this being a quality-control problem.

Until someone proves me otherwise, I'm sticking with this hypothesis.

Then how is it that some people have K-r's that focus perfectly in all light? Others have exchanged theirs and gotten much better results with the replacements. Surely, they're all running the same firmware.

And as far as me buying and returning, there is a lot of mixed information. The only thing I can do is to try one for myself in the lighting in my own home. And the only way to do that is to bring it home. And while there is a B&M camera store nearby, and as much as I want to support them, I just can't afford to pay the B&M "tax." So mailorder it is.

**Ash** · 01-18-2011, 03:34 PM

Just know that with all gear there are limitations.
Pentax is not the pinnacle of low light performance and should not expected to be.
Seeing as though you've already ordered and paid for the K-r, just try it out and if you find it's not meeting your needs, learn from the experience, do better research and get the product that will do the job for you.

SpecialK · 01-18-2011, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by lavascript

Wait, what? The Pentax Forum people are telling me to NOT get a Pentax?

Relax.

Pentax is not the greatest at all things, AF being one of them. We are not blind ****** fanboys.

lavascript · 01-18-2011, 03:56 PM

Okay, can I just delete this thread? I should have just kept my mouth shut until I have something quantifiable to discuss. I knew that when I posted it, but for some reason, I posted it anyway.

I had no idea this was going to turn into a "you're an idiot for buying a Pentax" situation. I'm not an idiot, I've done tons of research, I've been using a K10D for three years, and the only place I hit its limitations are in low light. Everything I've seen says that Pentax has improved by leaps and bounds in their low-light performance in the three generations since. Like I said, I looked hard at the 60D, but who cares if I can hit AF faster in EV4 if all my shots are blurry because I couldn't afford the IS lens?

**Ash** · 01-18-2011, 04:08 PM

OK, please do relax.
It's OK to post it - you may have to expect to get these responses, even if you've done the research and are experienced. The K-r is a *definite* and striking improvement on the K10D's low light performance, but if you want the best, you'd be spending a great deal more - from your post this may be a limiting factor.

In that case, you may well be pleased with the K-r, and if not then it may be the best your money can buy.

lavascript · 01-18-2011, 05:46 PM

First off, I'm quite relaxed. I guess I'm coming off as stressed or uptight, but, really, I'm a seriously laid-back fellow.

Also, I'm not concerned about the K-r's low-light performance. I'm concerned about a severe front-focusing defect.

krebsy75 · 01-18-2011, 06:05 PM

I have yet to see a well-performed focus test from either camera that shows good focus results in tungsten light with a fast lens. If you have, please share.

And regarding the claim that adjusting white balance fixes the problem, it didn't work for me. I did a custom white balance which is more accurate than using the preset.

I feel that the focus tests I performed with this camera are the most accurate among the others that have been done. I showed that not one, but two cameras outperformed the K-r in this area.

For the most part focus tests are for the birds. I never thought I would ever need to do one. Unfortunately, the shots from our K-r just didn't look right, hence why I took the time to do all of the focus tests in my thread.

For reference, here's the thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-r-forum/126823-k-r-focus-test-im...ml#post1314277

BTW, for what it's worth, I really love this brand. My wife and I were pretty devastated when the K-r didn't work out. I mean, as devastated as you can expect for a silly piece of equipment. We ended up unloading the K-r for some nice glass. Once Pentax gets these bugs ironed out, we'll be first in line to upgrade.

Originally posted by lavascript

Then how is it that some people have K-r's that focus perfectly in all light? Others have exchanged theirs and gotten much better results with the replacements. Surely, they're all running the same firmware.

And as far as me buying and returning, there is a lot of mixed information. The only thing I can do is to try one for myself in the lighting in my own home. And the only way to do that is to bring it home. And while there is a B&M camera store nearby, and as much as I want to support them, I just can't afford to pay the B&M "tax." So mailorder it is.

lavascript · 01-18-2011, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by krebsy97

I have yet to see a well-performed focus test from either camera that shows good focus results in tungsten light with a fast lens. If you have, please share.

Either camera?

Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to well-performed focus tests, just anecdotal evidence from users that seem to not be experiencing the FF/W issue, or not to the same degree as you or DeadJohn. Maybe they were just ignorant, or only used it in natural light. Or maybe I was just looking for support for a decision I had already made.

So your second body had the same problem? I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order before it ships.

krebsy75 · 01-18-2011, 08:59 PM

I actually never got a second body. I didn't want to deal with the return/exchange hassle. We punted for now and got a couple of DA Limiteds and the 18-135.

If there wasn't a trend I would have chalked up the situation to getting a defective camera. Once I did some research, and saw the front-focus trend with both the K-r and K-5, I decided to punt. There's clearly an issue that needs to be resolved.

In my case both the K10D and K20D focused better in tungsten light. This was unacceptable to me. Especially considering the K10D which is 5 year old technology - eons in DSLRs.

If you, like me, are looking to use either of these new cameras with a fast lens in tungsten light, you may want to evaluate your options. That's my best advice.

Originally posted by lavascript

Either camera?

Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to well-performed focus tests, just anecdotal evidence from users that seem to not be experiencing the FF/W issue, or not to the same degree as you or DeadJohn. Maybe they were just ignorant, or only used it in natural light. Or maybe I was just looking for support for a decision I had already made.

So your second body had the same problem? I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order before it ships.

krebsy75 · 01-18-2011, 08:59 PM

Regarding "either camera" I was referring to the K-r and K-5.

Originally posted by lavascript

Either camera?

Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to well-performed focus tests, just anecdotal evidence from users that seem to not be experiencing the FF/W issue, or not to the same degree as you or DeadJohn. Maybe they were just ignorant, or only used it in natural light. Or maybe I was just looking for support for a decision I had already made.

So your second body had the same problem? I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order before it ships.

01-18-2011, 11:01 AM	#1
lavascript Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 396	Exchange vs repair All this is hypothetical, as I don't even have my K-r yet. But I plan on using it quite a bit with AF in tungsten or mixed tungsten/CFL light, so if my K-r exhibits the dreaded FF issue, it would be hugely noticeable in my shots. Should I exchange it, or should I send it to Pentax for repair? Retailer Pro: Fast turnaround Con: Might just get another FF-ing body Pentax: Pro: Guaranteed* fixed Con: 3 weeks Any thoughts or past experiences? * I'm not implying that there's an actual guarantee, just that the probability of the problem being fixed is very, very high.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Need some advice, refund or exchange?	FHPhotographer	Pentax DSLR Discussion	4	12-17-2010 08:48 PM
Mail Exchange instead of Return and buy	future_retro	Ask B&H Photo!	6	08-03-2010 11:30 AM
Warranty or Exchange?	shang	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	8	07-24-2010 03:08 PM
Anyone here knows about stock exchange?l	rustynail925	General Talk	8	03-13-2010 10:59 AM
Question Print Exchange	geauxpez	Site Suggestions and Help	7	08-29-2009 11:52 AM

01-18-2011, 02:34 PM	#2
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	How about don't get a Pentax at all if low EV AF is what you will need?

01-18-2011, 02:49 PM	#3
bigal1000 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 33	Yea,makes no sense to buy it and return it?

01-18-2011, 03:02 PM	#4
lavascript Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 396 Original Poster	Wait, what? The Pentax Forum people are telling me to NOT get a Pentax? I have to say, I gave the 60D a hard look, but I ultimately settled on the K-r for: Higher overall IQ (isn't that what really matters?) Lower price Less hassle (don't have to sell my lenses) Plus, I'm not totally PO'd at my K10D's AF speed in low-EV, just wishing for some improvement. So what's the deal? Why are you pushing me AWAY from Pentax?? Obviously, I'm aware of the FF issue, but from what I was able to gather, it's a QC issue that some people just don't have and is fixable.

01-18-2011, 03:16 PM	#5
krebsy75 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Chester County, Pa. Posts: 804	This is a software issue. There is no doubt about it. Getting your K-r repaired for front focus problems in tungsten light is just going to result in disappointment. Having said all of that, it could be a limitation of the hardware as well, but I really doubt it. I just don't see this being a quality-control problem. Until someone provies me otherwise, I'm sticking with this hypothesis.

01-18-2011, 03:27 PM	#6
lavascript Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 396 Original Poster	Originally posted by krebsy97 This is a software issue. There is no doubt about it. Getting your K-r repaired for front focus problems in tungsten light is just going to result in disappointment. Having said all of that, it could be a limitation of the hardware as well, but I really doubt it. I just don't see this being a quality-control problem. Until someone proves me otherwise, I'm sticking with this hypothesis. Then how is it that some people have K-r's that focus perfectly in all light? Others have exchanged theirs and gotten much better results with the replacements. Surely, they're all running the same firmware. And as far as me buying and returning, there is a lot of mixed information. The only thing I can do is to try one for myself in the lighting in my own home. And the only way to do that is to bring it home. And while there is a B&M camera store nearby, and as much as I want to support them, I just can't afford to pay the B&M "tax." So mailorder it is.

01-18-2011, 03:34 PM	#7
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Just know that with all gear there are limitations. Pentax is not the pinnacle of low light performance and should not expected to be. Seeing as though you've already ordered and paid for the K-r, just try it out and if you find it's not meeting your needs, learn from the experience, do better research and get the product that will do the job for you.

01-18-2011, 03:53 PM	#8
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,482	Originally posted by lavascript Wait, what? The Pentax Forum people are telling me to NOT get a Pentax? Relax. Pentax is not the greatest at all things, AF being one of them. We are not blind ****** fanboys.

01-18-2011, 03:56 PM	#9
lavascript Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 396 Original Poster	Okay, can I just delete this thread? I should have just kept my mouth shut until I have something quantifiable to discuss. I knew that when I posted it, but for some reason, I posted it anyway. I had no idea this was going to turn into a "you're an idiot for buying a Pentax" situation. I'm not an idiot, I've done tons of research, I've been using a K10D for three years, and the only place I hit its limitations are in low light. Everything I've seen says that Pentax has improved by leaps and bounds in their low-light performance in the three generations since. Like I said, I looked hard at the 60D, but who cares if I can hit AF faster in EV4 if all my shots are blurry because I couldn't afford the IS lens?

01-18-2011, 04:08 PM	#10
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	OK, please do relax. It's OK to post it - you may have to expect to get these responses, even if you've done the research and are experienced. The K-r is a definite and striking improvement on the K10D's low light performance, but if you want the best, you'd be spending a great deal more - from your post this may be a limiting factor. In that case, you may well be pleased with the K-r, and if not then it may be the best your money can buy.

01-18-2011, 05:46 PM	#11
lavascript Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 396 Original Poster	First off, I'm quite relaxed. I guess I'm coming off as stressed or uptight, but, really, I'm a seriously laid-back fellow. Also, I'm not concerned about the K-r's low-light performance. I'm concerned about a severe front-focusing defect.

01-18-2011, 06:05 PM	#12
krebsy75 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Chester County, Pa. Posts: 804	I have yet to see a well-performed focus test from either camera that shows good focus results in tungsten light with a fast lens. If you have, please share. And regarding the claim that adjusting white balance fixes the problem, it didn't work for me. I did a custom white balance which is more accurate than using the preset. I feel that the focus tests I performed with this camera are the most accurate among the others that have been done. I showed that not one, but two cameras outperformed the K-r in this area. For the most part focus tests are for the birds. I never thought I would ever need to do one. Unfortunately, the shots from our K-r just didn't look right, hence why I took the time to do all of the focus tests in my thread. For reference, here's the thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-r-forum/126823-k-r-focus-test-im...ml#post1314277 BTW, for what it's worth, I really love this brand. My wife and I were pretty devastated when the K-r didn't work out. I mean, as devastated as you can expect for a silly piece of equipment. We ended up unloading the K-r for some nice glass. Once Pentax gets these bugs ironed out, we'll be first in line to upgrade. Originally posted by lavascript Then how is it that some people have K-r's that focus perfectly in all light? Others have exchanged theirs and gotten much better results with the replacements. Surely, they're all running the same firmware. And as far as me buying and returning, there is a lot of mixed information. The only thing I can do is to try one for myself in the lighting in my own home. And the only way to do that is to bring it home. And while there is a B&M camera store nearby, and as much as I want to support them, I just can't afford to pay the B&M "tax." So mailorder it is.

01-18-2011, 08:35 PM	#13
lavascript Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 396 Original Poster	Originally posted by krebsy97 I have yet to see a well-performed focus test from either camera that shows good focus results in tungsten light with a fast lens. If you have, please share. Either camera? Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to well-performed focus tests, just anecdotal evidence from users that seem to not be experiencing the FF/W issue, or not to the same degree as you or DeadJohn. Maybe they were just ignorant, or only used it in natural light. Or maybe I was just looking for support for a decision I had already made. So your second body had the same problem? I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order before it ships.

01-18-2011, 08:59 PM	#14
krebsy75 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Chester County, Pa. Posts: 804	I actually never got a second body. I didn't want to deal with the return/exchange hassle. We punted for now and got a couple of DA Limiteds and the 18-135. If there wasn't a trend I would have chalked up the situation to getting a defective camera. Once I did some research, and saw the front-focus trend with both the K-r and K-5, I decided to punt. There's clearly an issue that needs to be resolved. In my case both the K10D and K20D focused better in tungsten light. This was unacceptable to me. Especially considering the K10D which is 5 year old technology - eons in DSLRs. If you, like me, are looking to use either of these new cameras with a fast lens in tungsten light, you may want to evaluate your options. That's my best advice. Originally posted by lavascript Either camera? Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to well-performed focus tests, just anecdotal evidence from users that seem to not be experiencing the FF/W issue, or not to the same degree as you or DeadJohn. Maybe they were just ignorant, or only used it in natural light. Or maybe I was just looking for support for a decision I had already made. So your second body had the same problem? I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order before it ships.

01-18-2011, 08:59 PM	#15
krebsy75 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Chester County, Pa. Posts: 804	Regarding "either camera" I was referring to the K-r and K-5. Originally posted by lavascript Either camera? Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to well-performed focus tests, just anecdotal evidence from users that seem to not be experiencing the FF/W issue, or not to the same degree as you or DeadJohn. Maybe they were just ignorant, or only used it in natural light. Or maybe I was just looking for support for a decision I had already made. So your second body had the same problem? I'm wondering if I should just cancel my order before it ships.