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02-04-2011, 06:32 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matso Quote
I am debating as to whether to bring the camera back to the store to see if they'll replace it (and whether a different K-r has the same issues) or whether I need to contact Pentax directly? I am loathe to have to spend any money on shipping the camera to the UK repair centre though given I've had it for a week. Or do I just wait to see whether Pentax does anything with a firmware update?

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.
I am waiting. The AF is fine in daylight. It seems to be just tungsten (artificial) light where there is a problem with mine.

02-04-2011, 06:33 AM   #17
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I don't think that the replacement will solve your problem. I've returned my Kr too (about two weeks ago) and I'm expecting another to replace it, but I doubt that my problem will be solved. Maybe, as our predecessors said, a new firmware will solve or, at least, will attenuate the front focus problem.
02-04-2011, 06:59 AM   #18
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Thanks both.

Am I correct in thinking this problem doesn't afflict the K-x? If that's correct, is there any hardware specific to the K-r (not shared by the K-x) which might mean a firmware update won't resolve the issue? (Answering this probably involves some speculation as to what is causing the issue! And apologies, I'm not intimately familiar with the underlying differences between the K-x and K-r)
02-04-2011, 07:17 AM   #19
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As for the k-x: mine is in warranty repair for other reasons, but while I had it I was a happy camper even (and especially) in tungsten light, mostly using a Tamron 17-50mm 1:2.8.

02-04-2011, 07:18 AM   #20
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Matso, you must just notice that AF system of Kr is the newer SAFOX 9, Kx having SAFOX 8. As you can see, newer is not necessarely entirely better.

Last edited by ursamajor; 02-04-2011 at 07:43 AM.
02-04-2011, 12:20 PM - 1 Like   #21
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hypo, back off a little on the "fanboi (sic) /apologists" talk, okay?

I was one of the strongest critics of the original argument that FF was a common problem to all K-rs; I've since retracted that after further testing. However I resented then, and I resent now, this growing practice of scapegoating dissenters who hold opposing views based on their assumed membership in some group, e.g. "fanboy" or "apologists."

Once we start down that road it's all to easy to reject any dissenting point of view by stereotyping behavior based not on the validity of the argument but on membership to that group. In the real world this kind of thinking leads to all sorts of mischief that ranges from the silly to the serious. The stakes aren't nearly as high in this kind of forum, but none the less group stereotyping is unwholesome, inappropriate and has a chilling effect on honest disagreement and discussion,
Brian
02-04-2011, 12:43 PM   #22
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You're right, my friend. I like your way of thinking.
We just must find the truth, by talking impartially and wisely.

Last edited by ursamajor; 02-06-2011 at 10:41 PM.
02-04-2011, 04:09 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matso Quote

I am debating as to whether to bring the camera back to the store to see if they'll replace it (and whether a different K-r has the same issues) or whether I need to contact Pentax directly? I am loathe to have to spend any money on shipping the camera to the UK repair centre though given I've had it for a week. Or do I just wait to see whether Pentax does anything with a firmware update?

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.
Yep, forums like this can't fix nuffint [sic].

Only advice I would give is do not sit on the problem! Make your retailer aware per normal obligations -- though I wouldn't hand it in for repair, or even accept exchange from them, at this stage.

Instead, formally report all your findings and observations in detail to Pentax HQ in your relevant area (preferably by letter, or at least email, not just verbal by phone), then follow up on that when required and play the waiting game that way, because we all need to accept the fact that they're unlikely to have a viable solution for quite some time[] -- although band-aid improvements might appear short term.
In the meantime the camera should still be very usuable for most people's needs, esp those like yourself who accept and understand the problem's limits, so could creatively work around it.

The good bit is that Pentax (official) or their official locale distributors, take things very seriously. And smart companies revel in honest, detailed feedback from real-world owners like yourself out in the field to help them fully comprehend and devise solutions to their product's ills.

I'm fortunate to have one of the best distributors in my country (as well as decent consumer protection laws here to back it all), and maybe other regions might not be so lucky, I don't know, but either way don't give up if the system seems slow, positive results will come in the end.

[] That timescale for solution I mentioned was not meant to be facetious, this issue is not exclusive to their K-r, the new K-5 apparently has it, to what degree I don't know (and other brands do too). I'm sure you realise that industry-wide "fixes" to complex tech problems rarely come fast, easy, or cheap. And they definitely don't birth within the murky mire of one-sentence web forum prattle.

So now you know the reasons why I'm satisfied to bunk down for a long wait. Enjoy your wonderful camera in the meantime.
I expect it could even lead to a few using the opportunity to expand their interests into different genres of photography too.
Lemons do make great lemonade.

.R.

"Critics are our friends, they tell us our faults." -- Benjamin Franklin


Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-04-2011 at 04:16 PM.
02-04-2011, 05:44 PM   #24
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Goodbye to Pentax

QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Well, I was wrong about the FF issues under artificial light.
I apologize, at least for asserting all K-rs could not have the problem because mine didn't. Mine does, so I retract my comments,
Brian
ADDITION: Well I've finally had it.
  • My first K20 had an ongoing problem and continuously reported the SD card was full and locked up the camera even when the card wasn't full; three times in to CRIS, three times repaired, three times the same problem. I learned to work around it by simply formating the card every time I downloaded, but it was annoying.
  • Then I swamped the camera and replaced it with another K20 that was so badly flawed that it never did AF correctly and had to be returned.
  • Then came the K-x that I liked a lot,but didn't like the lack of focus point in the VF and the dim LCD. That was exchanged for a K-r, but I came to find out that, like many others, it had uncorrectable FF issues in not only artificial light but in any difficult weak/dim light. And that has been now sent back for a refund.
Since my K100D I've gone through enough four Pentax bodies, and several Pentax prime and zoom lenses (plus some very good Tamron lenses). The cameras are good, or not so good, but the core issue of poor quality control and indifference to customers continues. Pentax has no more problems than other brands, but Pentax is less responsive and seems to lack a centralized customer service program that actually cares about the customers, brand loyalty and servicing the brand. Pentax fans have to support the brand in spite of the company, and that's simply more than I want to keep dealing with .
I wanted to stay with Pentax; the bodies have IS, great lenses and the best ergonomics on the market. And when they're good they are very good indeed; but when they're not so good... Pentax/Hoya just can't seem to get it right, from quality control (and how, exactly, did those damaged K5 sensors get past quality control?), through customer service. These things happen to all brands, but the other brands seem to respond better and put solutions into the pipeline much, much faster.
Farewell to the brand and to the best camera forum on the web,
Brian
02-05-2011, 07:33 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
Farewell to the brand and to the best camera forum on the web
Wow... that's an unhappy list. Still - not waiting to see if they manage to fix the FF through a firmware update? I guess if you've had the camera a short enough time that you can get a refund it definitely makes sense to do so and then consider purchasing again when the issue is fixed. I've had mine three months now, so I just have to wait and hope.
02-06-2011, 01:17 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
ADDITION: Well I've finally had it.
  • My first K20 had an ongoing problem and continuously reported the SD card was full and locked up the camera even when the card wasn't full; three times in to CRIS, three times repaired, three times the same problem. I learned to work around it by simply formating the card every time I downloaded, but it was annoying.
  • Then I swamped the camera and replaced it with another K20 that was so badly flawed that it never did AF correctly and had to be returned.
  • Then came the K-x that I liked a lot,but didn't like the lack of focus point in the VF and the dim LCD. That was exchanged for a K-r, but I came to find out that, like many others, it had uncorrectable FF issues in not only artificial light but in any difficult weak/dim light. And that has been now sent back for a refund.
Since my K100D I've gone through enough four Pentax bodies, and several Pentax prime and zoom lenses (plus some very good Tamron lenses). The cameras are good, or not so good, but the core issue of poor quality control and indifference to customers continues. Pentax has no more problems than other brands, but Pentax is less responsive and seems to lack a centralized customer service program that actually cares about the customers, brand loyalty and servicing the brand. Pentax fans have to support the brand in spite of the company, and that's simply more than I want to keep dealing with .
I wanted to stay with Pentax; the bodies have IS, great lenses and the best ergonomics on the market. And when they're good they are very good indeed; but when they're not so good... Pentax/Hoya just can't seem to get it right, from quality control (and how, exactly, did those damaged K5 sensors get past quality control?), through customer service. These things happen to all brands, but the other brands seem to respond better and put solutions into the pipeline much, much faster.
Farewell to the brand and to the best camera forum on the web,
Brian
Such an unexpected move fro me, as I had to argue with you about the FF. Almost as in a Tarantino movie Seriously, though, I understand how you feel, I have been with Pentax for 3 months only and I am not happy with the problems K-R has displayed, but mostly with the way Pentax are coping with this. I lost many hours investigating and writing on the pEntax forum about the FF issue. Instead, Pentax could have saved me all this time by just apologizing and specifying where exactly the problems was.
I wish you find a brand that is up to your standards of quality but mostly communication!
02-06-2011, 01:51 PM   #27
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You can try to adjust the focus through the fine adjust in the custom menus to see if that helps. If not...then I would suggest you return it to your retailer, if that's allowed. Maybe get a K-x instead?

QuoteOriginally posted by Matso Quote
Hello, first time poster, so apologies if I break any unspoken rules around here.

I bought a K-r about a week ago, largely on the strength of Pentax primes and the high ISO capabilities (I had an SLR years ago, but have been happy with a Ricoh GX100 over the past few years).

I noticed a fair bit of softness on some of the indoor shots I took with the K-r over the first couple of days and, over the past two nights, I ran a few (basic) tests under tungsten conditions (various WB settings, focal lengths, distances, ISO, etc) to see whether there is FF on AF, which there undoubtedly is. The difference between AF and LV is so marked, it makes me wonder about the camera's AF abilities under any condition, to be honest (i'll play with it in other conditions this weekend).

I am debating as to whether to bring the camera back to the store to see if they'll replace it (and whether a different K-r has the same issues) or whether I need to contact Pentax directly? I am loathe to have to spend any money on shipping the camera to the UK repair centre though given I've had it for a week. Or do I just wait to see whether Pentax does anything with a firmware update?

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.
02-06-2011, 01:51 PM   #28
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What are your plans for your old lenses?

QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
ADDITION: Well I've finally had it.
  • My first K20 had an ongoing problem and continuously reported the SD card was full and locked up the camera even when the card wasn't full; three times in to CRIS, three times repaired, three times the same problem. I learned to work around it by simply formating the card every time I downloaded, but it was annoying.
  • Then I swamped the camera and replaced it with another K20 that was so badly flawed that it never did AF correctly and had to be returned.
  • Then came the K-x that I liked a lot,but didn't like the lack of focus point in the VF and the dim LCD. That was exchanged for a K-r, but I came to find out that, like many others, it had uncorrectable FF issues in not only artificial light but in any difficult weak/dim light. And that has been now sent back for a refund.
Since my K100D I've gone through enough four Pentax bodies, and several Pentax prime and zoom lenses (plus some very good Tamron lenses). The cameras are good, or not so good, but the core issue of poor quality control and indifference to customers continues. Pentax has no more problems than other brands, but Pentax is less responsive and seems to lack a centralized customer service program that actually cares about the customers, brand loyalty and servicing the brand. Pentax fans have to support the brand in spite of the company, and that's simply more than I want to keep dealing with .
I wanted to stay with Pentax; the bodies have IS, great lenses and the best ergonomics on the market. And when they're good they are very good indeed; but when they're not so good... Pentax/Hoya just can't seem to get it right, from quality control (and how, exactly, did those damaged K5 sensors get past quality control?), through customer service. These things happen to all brands, but the other brands seem to respond better and put solutions into the pipeline much, much faster.
Farewell to the brand and to the best camera forum on the web,
Brian
I am a newbie here and soon to be owner of a K-R so I may not be asking this in the right spot. Seeing as you are no longer going to be using the Pentax brand of camera I was wondering what are your plans for the lenses you currently own.

I am also curious to know which brand of camera will you begin investing in.

Thanks,
Jeffery
02-06-2011, 02:45 PM   #29
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@ Hypocorism - thanks for the well-balanced advice.

After a weekend of various "tests" under all sorts of light conditions, I'm relieved to say that the FF issues have really only been under Tungsten. I've shot a variety of things under energy-saving lightbulbs in darker conditions than under tungsten, as well as in poor daylight and got accurate, sharp results almost all of the time (where not, it's almost always clearly motion blur rather than lack of focus due to slow shutter speed). In terms of tungsten, the work around's for now are Live View (which can give razor sharp results) and manual focus, which should be fine for most of my purposes.

So all in all, still quite pleased with the camera (I just love the ergonomics, overall responsiveness and results out of the box).

I will drop Pentax a line this week though simply to make known the issue (I know they're aware of it, but I always think it's good for them to know how widespread the problem is and to keep the pressure on!)
02-06-2011, 06:56 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matso Quote

In terms of tungsten, the work around's for now are Live View (which can give razor sharp results) and manual focus, which should be fine for most of my purposes.

So all in all, still quite pleased with the camera (I just love the ergonomics, overall responsiveness and results out of the box).
Yes I agree, the higher-res LCD and better responding LiveView in K-r is one reason why I went for it, mainly to assist easier macro focusing although LV is not limited to that.

Is probably only the scenarios such as tungsten colour street / night lighting that can create most hassles sometimes for me. Those sodium vapours can give wierd outcomes too. We all have no real control over that and is not easy to swing from a tall lamp-post above a freeway and switch bulbs that aren't the correct colour temp to keep our camera happy.

QuoteOriginally posted by Matso Quote
I will drop Pentax a line this week though simply to make known the issue (I know they're aware of it, but I always think it's good for them to know how widespread the problem is and to keep the pressure on!)
Good move. Yep, it's not about repeating what's already known.
The more real owners that provide feedback to them gives the company more opportunity for understanding the true extent of any problem, and also of what people in general use their cameras for, and are therefore more affected by.

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-07-2011 at 05:04 AM.
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