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02-24-2011, 08:11 AM   #1
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My kids eyes are always closed

Hi everyone. I am new here. I just got my k-r in the mail yesterday. In attempting to take pictures of my kids their eyes are closed every single time. I am using the auto flash and just using auto or portrait mode. Is there a setting I need to change? I never had issues with them blinking with point and shoot cameras. I know once I really get to know how to use it not in auto mode I can do better, but for now I want to be able to get pics of my kids while I learn! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

02-24-2011, 08:28 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by megp Quote
Hi everyone. I am new here. I just got my k-r in the mail yesterday. In attempting to take pictures of my kids their eyes are closed every single time. I am using the auto flash and just using auto or portrait mode. Is there a setting I need to change? I never had issues with them blinking with point and shoot cameras. I know once I really get to know how to use it not in auto mode I can do better, but for now I want to be able to get pics of my kids while I learn! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Congratulations on your Kr.

I also had problems with closed eyes to with pttl. I found that by using "red eye" option in PTTL, that i not only got rid of red eye, but no more shut eyes. Something about the timing of the red eye flash seems to cause open eyes.

Another option, bounced flash off a ceiling or walls seems to avoid blinked eyes with pttl. there is less delay involved than in the red eye option.

Hope this helps!
02-24-2011, 09:18 AM   #3
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Thank you for your response Phil! My friend posted my question in a forum that she posts in and I think she said you responded there too so double thanks!
02-24-2011, 12:11 PM   #4
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you can try not using a flash...or maybe putting it on high speed mode and take like 5 pictures at a time? =)

02-24-2011, 01:08 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by megp Quote
Hi everyone. I am new here. I just got my k-r in the mail yesterday. In attempting to take pictures of my kids their eyes are closed every single time. I am using the auto flash and just using auto or portrait mode. Is there a setting I need to change? I never had issues with them blinking with point and shoot cameras.
Poor kid.
The reason why living creatures blink hard, or close their eyes, in reaction to the savagery of such super bright instant light (which every camera flash is), is because they are only trying to protect their precious eyes from obvious serious health damage.

It's a natural reaction, and the delicate eye/cornea/pupil/etc. sensitivity of all people is different, as is their reflexes speed to protect the eye lenses. As well as the probability of damage, however partial or temporary, to a given person's sight. People aren't allowed to beat kids by law these days, or expose them to passive smoke, etc., so why... ?

Camera makers serve up Red-Eye as a built-in option, which is about the same as putting a band-aid on skin cancer. Red-eye is only a pre-flash only tries to force the victim to dilate their pupils, before hitting them with the full blast! and pretending that's somehow better. Sure, a dilated pupil doen't give such red-eyed reflection effect showing in the photo. And that's the important bit, huh! who cares about the person? Grrr...
The important thing to ascertain from that is; medically and optically, a dilated pupil is still a [just as] vulnerable pupil, even though that vulnerability is 'covered up', because... Hey, no red-eye showing in MY pics is there, so obviously no problem. Yeah riiight!

OK, you can believe if you want that the problem didn't exist with your P&S cameras, but the more scientific (and therefore honest) answer is that it was only lessened. What could be deduced there is that the poor kid didn't even get time to react and close their eyes for protection, so copped the full brunt of the light. Think about it.

To you, the pics looked good, so you were happy. No harm done. Or was there?

Sure stupid people will say that turning on Red-eye or using less powered flash is OK, but really... that's sick! How are they qualified to judge the sensitivity and damage potential levels of your child's eyes? Grrrr... again.

So the only real question is: Is your kid (and other people too) worth caring about?
Sorry, I make no apologies for believing [knowing] that eyes are worth looking after. And that even micro-short exposures to sudden brightness intensities can be serious harmful.

However, don't believe what I say (and I know you won't!). You could continue to inflict this sadism, or, read up and learn about it, ie. of the medical~biological esp long term consequences. Camera makers and their users definitely don't qualify as experts there.
Hint: you'll probably find good info on this scarce to find, unfortunately the world is still at the "Marlboro Man is socially accepted hero" stage on many matters like this, awakenings will come though and camera flashes won't be sacred cows like cigarettes aren't anymore. We only need to reinvent the tools and ways we do it to accommodate safety as a higher priority. And attitudes too of course. No rocket science required.

And then, you will want to seek out a better more safer and considerate way: Yes, the great thing is that options are available; such as from simple inexpensive softener diffusers to put over flashes, to better on or off camera flashes that can direct the light AWAY from the victim eyes and bounce it off ceilings and walls. Like a Light flood.

Another big side benefit is that these alternate methods also will give much better images, with far far less risk of harm.

Enuff sed. There are many experienced flash users here (and elsewhere on the 'net) who will be able to provide a variety of affordable, easy to adapt and use suggestions, please consider them for that little one's sake.

"Be nice to your children - they get to choose your nursing home..." -- Anon

Remember, if the sudden light was not a problem or danger to our visual input receptors (eyes) then we wouldn't blink to try and avoid it! It is that simple.

(No prizes for guessing that I never use direct flash at living animal creatures. And they usually care about me too in return so it all works out good.)

HTH.

.R. -- Torture is only ever inflicted over a short period too, while the perpetrator is "learning".

Last edited by Hypocorism; 02-24-2011 at 08:54 PM.
02-24-2011, 07:55 PM   #6
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Umm... Wow. Took me a while to realize that you weren't joking.

Seriously?
02-25-2011, 04:16 AM   #7
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I thought that was a joke also, wow. Each to their own though, if we use flash and torture our children in the process, it's our business. But does this mean I can sue the portrait photographer at school?
02-25-2011, 04:53 AM   #8
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Quite the rant, HTH. I might not express it in such florid, over-the-top terms but I tend to agree.

02-25-2011, 06:16 AM   #9
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Fast Blinkers

QuoteOriginally posted by megp Quote
Hi everyone. I am new here. I just got my k-r in the mail yesterday. In attempting to take pictures of my kids their eyes are closed every single time. I am using the auto flash and just using auto or portrait mode. Is there a setting I need to change? I never had issues with them blinking with point and shoot cameras. I know once I really get to know how to use it not in auto mode I can do better, but for now I want to be able to get pics of my kids while I learn! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
The "blinkies" are a result of the pre-flash PTTL technology. Other brands have had this problem over the years, but most have solved it. Pentax has not.

Here is what is going on:

The PTTL system emits s small flash before the main flash which it uses to assess the metering and the flash power needed for the main exposure.

Some people have a very fast blink response and the pre-flash causes them to blink, which then gets caught by the main exposure/flash which happens just a bit later.

Many do not have a fast blink response but will still get started on a blink, which results in a droopy look.

I hate this problem, and the suggestion about using the pre-pre flash redeye is a good one as the fast blinkers will then get done blinking by the main exposure.

However, I have found that you need to warn everyone that there will be 3 flashes so they do not think you are done after the second one and look away or turn their head or something.

The only real solution is for Pentax to reduce the time interval between the pre-flash and main flash, which is dictated by the speed of the shutter (mainly). they have not done so to date that I am aware of, but this is how other brands fixed the problem.

One last suggestion is to use bounce flash as much as possible. In my experience I see far fewer blinkies if the pre-flash is bounced. I do not know whay this is so, maybe the pre-flash is less harsh when bounced and therefore does not trigger the brain to blink, but I really do not know, it simply works most of the time.

Of course, you need an external flash to bounce.

Ray
02-25-2011, 06:17 AM   #10
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how old your kids?

poor kids..their eyes might be damage because of you..
02-25-2011, 06:22 AM   #11
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And the medical proof of all this eye damage is exactly where?

Next thing he's going to tell us is that picking your nose is bad for you too.
02-25-2011, 09:10 AM   #12
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that's why i ask their age first and i said "might" damage..

direct flash is not good for infant/baby or little kids..
02-25-2011, 12:27 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by v3t0 Quote
that's why i ask their age first and i said "might" damage..

direct flash is not good for infant/baby or little kids..
Ira was not responding to you. Unfortunately, posters do not always quote who they are responding to.

Have any fashion models gone blind, I wonder?
02-25-2011, 08:21 PM   #14
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One More Suggestion

QuoteOriginally posted by megp Quote
Hi everyone. I am new here. I just got my k-r in the mail yesterday. In attempting to take pictures of my kids their eyes are closed every single time. I am using the auto flash and just using auto or portrait mode. Is there a setting I need to change? I never had issues with them blinking with point and shoot cameras. I know once I really get to know how to use it not in auto mode I can do better, but for now I want to be able to get pics of my kids while I learn! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Another suggestion is to buy an older flash that has an auto mode.

These flashes worked with the older TTL film cameras that did not use pre-flash. The TTL mode will not work on your camera, but they also had a sensor built-in and an auto mode.

You can set the camera to manual mode (the P and green modes will not work right with this solution) and set the flash to auto and also to the same aperture and ISO that you set on the camera and shoot away. If the subject is within the range shown on the back of the camera for the aperture you chose, the subject will be properly exposed. You might have to adjust the flash aperture setting a bit for bounce.

EDIT: Read the following link, it looks like the P or green mode does work with the older flashes. I recall what some call "smart auto" that works like this, but I do not see where this has yet been tested out with the Kr.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-camera-field-accessories/131144-pe...ocus-280t.html

There is no pre-flash, so you will not be any blinkies.

A good choice is the AF280T which has a tilting and swivel head and is a good solid flash. It has only medium power output, but the bounce and swivel is very useful.

I think that there is one on the marketplace right now for $45, which is a pretty good deal as the 280T is popular for this very purpose and is reasonably compact.

I have found that auto mode works as well as PTTL in getting a good exposure after you get your settings worked out for your shooting conditions.

Good luck!

Ray

Last edited by Ray Pulley; 02-25-2011 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Added link and Smart Auto note
03-01-2011, 11:24 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
Have any fashion models gone blind, I wonder?
there is no problem with an adult
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