DP Review's review of the K-r is up....

Fogel70 · 03-13-2011, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by bdery

The same reasoning could be applied to video, menues ease of use, or just anything else.

SR, live view, WR are features, and they should be included in the value of a camera. With all honesty, current DSLRs all can produce images of comparable quality. What differenciates the brands are: lenses lineup, and body features and performances.

Canikon are always underspecked, but score quite high, because...? Who knows, who cares?

Are you saying that Pentax DSLR should get higher rating because of SR, and Pentax lenses should get lower ratings as they do not include optical stabilization?
Should also cameras missing AF-motor get lower ratings, and lenses including AF-motor get higher ratings?

RonakG · 03-13-2011, 07:56 PM

This is typical of any Pentax reviews. All the reviewers gives fair reviews but unfair scores. I think they are somehow obliged to give the two big brands better scores.

Check out this comparison of T2i and K-r. K-r scores better in all areas where it actually matters but still T2i gets a better overall score.

Canon T2i vs Pentax K-r

Also, in all DPR reviews they never consider Pentax cameras as competition when reviewing C & N cameras.

ursamajor · 03-13-2011, 09:12 PM

Believe me, the Rebel is far better than Kr. As amateur, I don't need 6 fps, intervalometer or in camera filters, but I need a good AF a good metering and very precise calibrated camera(s). Not to mention the video mode much better than Kr's and, especially, the better QC of products. I owned the Kr, sent it back for its issues and bought a Rebel. The only thing that I regret the Kr is its better built quality.

PS: please, compare the Kr's picture with Rebel's picture, both taken with the kit lens and unmodified/unedited. What did you done in my place?

Sorry for the host site, but I don't have one who accept full size photos.

hawk1500 · 03-13-2011, 11:57 PM

I don't understand why you keep trolling on this forum. You keep saying you want to buy a K-r, but all you do is complain about the FF issue. It's not like you even have used the K-r or experienced it, but you just keep posting and posting and posting and posting. Why haven't you gone out and bought your T3i already?

Originally posted by ursamajor

Believe me, the Rebel is far better than Kr. As amateur, I don't need 6 fps, intervalometer or in camera filters, but I need a good AF a good metering and very precise calibrated camera(s). Not to mention the video mode much better than Kr's and, especially, the better QC of products. I owned the Kr, sent it back for its issues and bought a Rebel. The only thing that I regret the Kr is its better built quality.

PS: please, compare the Kr's picture with Rebel's picture, both taken with the kit lens and unmodified/unedited. What did you done in my place?

Sorry for the host site, but I don't have one who accept full size photos.

GrinMode · 03-14-2011, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by hawk1500

I don't understand why you keep trolling on this forum. You keep saying you want to buy a K-r, but all you do is complain about the FF issue. It's not like you even have used the K-r or experienced it, but you just keep posting and posting and posting and posting. Why haven't you gone out and bought your T3i already?

If I remember correctly he has used the K-r. He had returned it due to the FF prob.

What I don't get is why he doesn't buy the Canon instead. He says he wants the K-r, but continues to harp about the Canons.

But hey, he makes a loud noise about the FF issue that Pentax might consider listening

.

Verglace · 03-14-2011, 12:18 AM

Actually if you read the other thread, he (ursamajor) did have a k-r returned it and replaced it with a canon, what doesn't make sense is why he still hangs around.

In any case, I felt that the reviewer was totally misleading by not mentioning the FF issue at all. I personally don't care about the FF issue as I never take photos on a tungsten light, heck I tried to find a tungsten light to test my camera out but couldn't find one. All lights these days are fluorescent, halogen, LEDs. But still though, someone reading the review who do take photos on tungsten light might buy the camera based on the review and be disappointed once he/she gets it.

ursamajor · 03-14-2011, 12:46 AM

Sorry, I'm not at all a troll. I owned the Kr. I've wait a fix solution for it, but seeing the persistent ff on K5 (see the topic), even after firmware 1.0.3, I decided that better for me is to give up Pentax cameras.

The review of Kr seems fair to me. If we consider that it has severe ff in tungsten and moderate ff in various artificial light, it's a good review for Kr. For those who contest the review, remember that the Kx got very good score. On the other hand, Kr isn't considered entry level model, but midrange one. So, Kr is compared with midrange cameras. Dpreview explains that thing clearly:
"Scoring is relative only to the other cameras in the same category.
Click here to learn about the changes to our scoring system and what these numbers mean".

PS: So, ignore the score and (only) read the review.

nikigo · 03-14-2011, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by ursamajor

PS: please, compare the Kr's picture with Rebel's picture, both taken with the kit lens and unmodified/unedited. What did you done in my place?

I would learn more about taking photos and not write and post unnecessary posts. The k-r picture is taken with the kit lens and the rebel with a 50mm prime lens. The lighting conditions are different, and so is the aperture and exposure time. This comparison is meaningless.

ursamajor · 03-14-2011, 03:48 AM

Oh, yes, sorry, here is the picture taken with 18-55mm @ 5.6. Mea culpa.

GrinMode · 03-14-2011, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by ursamajor

Oh, yes, sorry, here is the picture taken with 18-55mm @ 5.6. Mea culpa.

Sorry but my third world internet connection is too poor for looking at large pics, but are you saying the Canon pic is better? I guess that means you found the camera you've been looking for?

And you are posting this in a Pentax forum because?

ursamajor · 03-14-2011, 04:58 AM

Because it's a forum...

Yes, I found appropriate camera for good shootings, indeed. But, stay calm, I'll leave the forum soon. Too much fanboys here, unfortunatelly. Excluding those presents.

bdery · 03-14-2011, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

Should also cameras missing AF-motor get lower ratings, and lenses including AF-motor get higher ratings?

Cameras without AF motors, such as the D40, which prevent you from using AF on current lenses, should score lower indeed.

There has never been any conclusive test showing that ultrasonic motors have any incidence on AF speed or accuracy, they are simply less noisy. So to me it's not an issue.

My point is that when reviewing a DSLR, you have no choice but to review the whole system. And the camera should be scored accordingly.

Fogel70 · 03-14-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by bdery

Cameras without AF motors, such as the D40, which prevent you from using AF on current lenses, should score lower indeed.

There has never been any conclusive test showing that ultrasonic motors have any incidence on AF speed or accuracy, they are simply less noisy. So to me it's not an issue.

My point is that when reviewing a DSLR, you have no choice but to review the whole system. And the camera should be scored accordingly.

That is my point too, and as a system it does not matter if the stabilization is in the camera or in the lens. Just as it does not matter if the AF motor is in the camera or in the lens.

But one design choice can matter for certain application and might fit better for some users. Some might prefer quiet AF, some might prefer image stabilization on old manual focus lenses, some other user might want a pocket sized camera. But these type of things is hard for a reviewer to judge which is most important and which should score highest rating.

It is only the user themselves that can judge which type of system design that will fit them best.

**Deimos** · 03-14-2011, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

That is my point too, and as a system it does not matter if the stabilization is in the camera or in the lens. Just as it does not matter if the AF motor is in the camera or in the lens.

Its does from a cost perspective, buying a lens with AF and OS inside are generally more expensive.

I used to have Nikon D60, no AF motor or SR inside the body, so any lens I looked at (except the one cheap 35mm prime) cost a fortune b/c it needed to have AF-S and OS built in. Never mind it makes the lenses larger and heavier and greatly limits the lens selection that is fully usable on the camera.

So instead of buying a new lens for the D60 I decided it was more worthwhile to buy a K-r and I now shoot Pentax. I still think built in AF and SR should get bonus points, just as silent and accurate AF should for the competitors

woof · 03-14-2011, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by RonakG

This is typical of any Pentax reviews. All the reviewers gives fair reviews but unfair scores. I think they are somehow obliged to give the two big brands better scores.

So... how do we account for the K5 and D7000/D300s reviews then?

80% for D7000
82% for D300s
83% for K5

Same class....

woof!

03-13-2011, 09:12 PM	#33
ursamajor Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 242	Believe me, the Rebel is far better than Kr. As amateur, I don't need 6 fps, intervalometer or in camera filters, but I need a good AF a good metering and very precise calibrated camera(s). Not to mention the video mode much better than Kr's and, especially, the better QC of products. I owned the Kr, sent it back for its issues and bought a Rebel. The only thing that I regret the Kr is its better built quality. PS: please, compare the Kr's picture with Rebel's picture, both taken with the kit lens and unmodified/unedited. What did you done in my place? Sorry for the host site, but I don't have one who accept full size photos. Last edited by ursamajor; 03-13-2011 at 09:57 PM.

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03-13-2011, 09:36 AM	#31
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by bdery The same reasoning could be applied to video, menues ease of use, or just anything else. SR, live view, WR are features, and they should be included in the value of a camera. With all honesty, current DSLRs all can produce images of comparable quality. What differenciates the brands are: lenses lineup, and body features and performances. Canikon are always underspecked, but score quite high, because...? Who knows, who cares? Are you saying that Pentax DSLR should get higher rating because of SR, and Pentax lenses should get lower ratings as they do not include optical stabilization? Should also cameras missing AF-motor get lower ratings, and lenses including AF-motor get higher ratings?

03-13-2011, 07:56 PM	#32
RonakG Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 603	This is typical of any Pentax reviews. All the reviewers gives fair reviews but unfair scores. I think they are somehow obliged to give the two big brands better scores. Check out this comparison of T2i and K-r. K-r scores better in all areas where it actually matters but still T2i gets a better overall score. Canon T2i vs Pentax K-r Also, in all DPR reviews they never consider Pentax cameras as competition when reviewing C & N cameras.

03-13-2011, 11:57 PM	#34
hawk1500 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 270	I don't understand why you keep trolling on this forum. You keep saying you want to buy a K-r, but all you do is complain about the FF issue. It's not like you even have used the K-r or experienced it, but you just keep posting and posting and posting and posting. Why haven't you gone out and bought your T3i already? Originally posted by ursamajor Believe me, the Rebel is far better than Kr. As amateur, I don't need 6 fps, intervalometer or in camera filters, but I need a good AF a good metering and very precise calibrated camera(s). Not to mention the video mode much better than Kr's and, especially, the better QC of products. I owned the Kr, sent it back for its issues and bought a Rebel. The only thing that I regret the Kr is its better built quality. PS: please, compare the Kr's picture with Rebel's picture, both taken with the kit lens and unmodified/unedited. What did you done in my place? Sorry for the host site, but I don't have one who accept full size photos.

03-14-2011, 12:05 AM	#35
GrinMode Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 249	Originally posted by hawk1500 I don't understand why you keep trolling on this forum. You keep saying you want to buy a K-r, but all you do is complain about the FF issue. It's not like you even have used the K-r or experienced it, but you just keep posting and posting and posting and posting. Why haven't you gone out and bought your T3i already? If I remember correctly he has used the K-r. He had returned it due to the FF prob. What I don't get is why he doesn't buy the Canon instead. He says he wants the K-r, but continues to harp about the Canons. But hey, he makes a loud noise about the FF issue that Pentax might consider listening .

03-14-2011, 12:18 AM	#36
Verglace Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 468	Actually if you read the other thread, he (ursamajor) did have a k-r returned it and replaced it with a canon, what doesn't make sense is why he still hangs around. In any case, I felt that the reviewer was totally misleading by not mentioning the FF issue at all. I personally don't care about the FF issue as I never take photos on a tungsten light, heck I tried to find a tungsten light to test my camera out but couldn't find one. All lights these days are fluorescent, halogen, LEDs. But still though, someone reading the review who do take photos on tungsten light might buy the camera based on the review and be disappointed once he/she gets it.

03-14-2011, 12:46 AM	#37
ursamajor Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 242	Sorry, I'm not at all a troll. I owned the Kr. I've wait a fix solution for it, but seeing the persistent ff on K5 (see the topic), even after firmware 1.0.3, I decided that better for me is to give up Pentax cameras. The review of Kr seems fair to me. If we consider that it has severe ff in tungsten and moderate ff in various artificial light, it's a good review for Kr. For those who contest the review, remember that the Kx got very good score. On the other hand, Kr isn't considered entry level model, but midrange one. So, Kr is compared with midrange cameras. Dpreview explains that thing clearly: "Scoring is relative only to the other cameras in the same category. Click here to learn about the changes to our scoring system and what these numbers mean". PS: So, ignore the score and (only) read the review.

03-14-2011, 03:24 AM	#38
nikigo New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Skopje Posts: 18	Originally posted by ursamajor PS: please, compare the Kr's picture with Rebel's picture, both taken with the kit lens and unmodified/unedited. What did you done in my place? I would learn more about taking photos and not write and post unnecessary posts. The k-r picture is taken with the kit lens and the rebel with a 50mm prime lens. The lighting conditions are different, and so is the aperture and exposure time. This comparison is meaningless.

03-14-2011, 03:48 AM	#39
ursamajor Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 242	Oh, yes, sorry, here is the picture taken with 18-55mm @ 5.6. Mea culpa.

03-14-2011, 04:30 AM	#40
GrinMode Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 249	Originally posted by ursamajor Oh, yes, sorry, here is the picture taken with 18-55mm @ 5.6. Mea culpa. Sorry but my third world internet connection is too poor for looking at large pics, but are you saying the Canon pic is better? I guess that means you found the camera you've been looking for? And you are posting this in a Pentax forum because?

03-14-2011, 04:58 AM	#41
ursamajor Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 242	Because it's a forum... Yes, I found appropriate camera for good shootings, indeed. But, stay calm, I'll leave the forum soon. Too much fanboys here, unfortunatelly. Excluding those presents.

03-14-2011, 05:22 AM	#42
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by Fogel70 Should also cameras missing AF-motor get lower ratings, and lenses including AF-motor get higher ratings? Cameras without AF motors, such as the D40, which prevent you from using AF on current lenses, should score lower indeed. There has never been any conclusive test showing that ultrasonic motors have any incidence on AF speed or accuracy, they are simply less noisy. So to me it's not an issue. My point is that when reviewing a DSLR, you have no choice but to review the whole system. And the camera should be scored accordingly.

03-14-2011, 09:56 AM	#43
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by bdery Cameras without AF motors, such as the D40, which prevent you from using AF on current lenses, should score lower indeed. There has never been any conclusive test showing that ultrasonic motors have any incidence on AF speed or accuracy, they are simply less noisy. So to me it's not an issue. My point is that when reviewing a DSLR, you have no choice but to review the whole system. And the camera should be scored accordingly. That is my point too, and as a system it does not matter if the stabilization is in the camera or in the lens. Just as it does not matter if the AF motor is in the camera or in the lens. But one design choice can matter for certain application and might fit better for some users. Some might prefer quiet AF, some might prefer image stabilization on old manual focus lenses, some other user might want a pocket sized camera. But these type of things is hard for a reviewer to judge which is most important and which should score highest rating. It is only the user themselves that can judge which type of system design that will fit them best.

03-14-2011, 10:19 AM	#44
Deimos Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Kingdom of Wonder Posts: 1,777	Originally posted by Fogel70 That is my point too, and as a system it does not matter if the stabilization is in the camera or in the lens. Just as it does not matter if the AF motor is in the camera or in the lens. Its does from a cost perspective, buying a lens with AF and OS inside are generally more expensive. I used to have Nikon D60, no AF motor or SR inside the body, so any lens I looked at (except the one cheap 35mm prime) cost a fortune b/c it needed to have AF-S and OS built in. Never mind it makes the lenses larger and heavier and greatly limits the lens selection that is fully usable on the camera. So instead of buying a new lens for the D60 I decided it was more worthwhile to buy a K-r and I now shoot Pentax. I still think built in AF and SR should get bonus points, just as silent and accurate AF should for the competitors

03-14-2011, 11:13 AM	#45
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by RonakG This is typical of any Pentax reviews. All the reviewers gives fair reviews but unfair scores. I think they are somehow obliged to give the two big brands better scores. So... how do we account for the K5 and D7000/D300s reviews then? 80% for D7000 82% for D300s 83% for K5 Same class.... woof!