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06-14-2011, 08:18 PM   #256
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I agree with the person above regarding negative topics. It makes people better informed and makes them less likely to purchase the product. However for some reason other people seem to discount the issue and as a result people buy the product, think its not a serious problem and when they do encounter, find that there is no fix. Doing this does not benefit the person discounting the issue, it does not benefit pentax and it does not benefit the person purchasing it. There are a few examples on this thread, if you read from the start you can see people buying the camera in the hopes of a firmware being released. Months pass by and still no firmware and then they lose hope and have to sell the camera at a loss.

It makes me wonder why people are so intent on making this a non-issue when it clearly is. By defending it, they have nothing to gain, and is likely to cost the poor reader who was mislead into buying the product then having to sell it at cost.

There are a few lucky ones of course (like me) who were able to return it for a full refund, and was not fully jaded by Pentax's inability to fix the issue and upgraded to another Pentax camera. However, to a lot of people upgrading is too much money, so they are either stuck with it or have to sell it. In any case whats left is a bad experience with Pentax and a lot of time wasted.

06-14-2011, 09:43 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by Verglace Quote
I agree with the person above regarding negative topics. It makes people better informed and makes them less likely to purchase the product. However for some reason other people seem to discount the issue and as a result people buy the product, think its not a serious problem and when they do encounter, find that there is no fix. Doing this does not benefit the person discounting the issue, it does not benefit pentax and it does not benefit the person purchasing it. There are a few examples on this thread, if you read from the start you can see people buying the camera in the hopes of a firmware being released. Months pass by and still no firmware and then they lose hope and have to sell the camera at a loss.

It makes me wonder why people are so intent on making this a non-issue when it clearly is. By defending it, they have nothing to gain, and is likely to cost the poor reader who was mislead into buying the product then having to sell it at cost.

There are a few lucky ones of course (like me) who were able to return it for a full refund, and was not fully jaded by Pentax's inability to fix the issue and upgraded to another Pentax camera. However, to a lot of people upgrading is too much money, so they are either stuck with it or have to sell it. In any case whats left is a bad experience with Pentax and a lot of time wasted.
You ignore the fact that for some people it isn't an issue because they don't encounter Tungsten light. There are many happy k-r users who have no intention of selling their units - just look at all the new posts from new members and how stale this thread had gone. For me it's a non-issue. I do, however, recognise it is an issue for some and have cautioned some potential new purchasers to consider if they may encounter Tungsten light and would not be satisfied using LiveView if they did.
As for returns, it depends on your location and legislation but products are meant to be fit for intended use. I'd say most anyone with the issue could try for a refund.
06-15-2011, 12:40 AM   #258
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I take it its slowing does because most people has finally resigned to the fact that there is no patch coming, in about 4 months the K-r will be 1 year old by then and pentax will soon announce the real fix in the form of a new model. Then the k-r and the ff debacle will be a thing of the past... hopefully the new model doesn't introduce new issues!
06-15-2011, 01:10 AM   #259
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Every camera of this complexity has its quirks. The K-r's ff issue is a pretty bad one for people who need to shoot under tungsten light though. I think it will be fine for me, as I rarely would want to use it in artificial light, and the few times I can see needing to would not be an "action" situation, so I'm sure that MF would be a sufficient workaround.

I guess what I'm saying is that while consumers need to educate themselves before buying an expensive item like this, if the drawbacks of it won't affect them then it needn't dissuade them from purchasing - if it will do everything they want it to do, and well. The K-r is still at the top of my very short list, and with any luck I'll get one by the weekend. Unless I just hate the ergonomics of it when I go in to compare models in-hand.

It still reflects very badly on Pentax JP to drag their feet on this, and people will remember that every time a future model has an issue needing a patch. The earthquake and its aftermath certainly require extra patience from the community, but if they decide to never fix this (even if just a partial fix) then their image will take a hit for it.

06-15-2011, 01:55 AM   #260
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As a disability pensioner it's taken me a long time to save-up enough to buy a K-R - which, where I am, costs AUD$669.00 - with the old-series kit 18-55mm or not...

The "kit options" are that - or that plus the 50-200mm, no great prize, for $839.00. They also offer the K-X with nine (9) kit options, including old kit 18-55mm for $609.00, or the basic Sigma 17-70mm I'd prefer to the old 18-55 - for $685.00.

For either, 3 Years Warranty is another $85.00.

In my situation I'll have to keep my new camera for quite some time, and don't really want a current model with any defects, or to pay "current new" price for an older model...

So I'm noticing with increasing interest the "Sales" Posts on the Forum here - under-5000-actuations K20Ds for $200.00 less than I'd pay for a new K-R here - even low-count K-7s for about what a new K-R costs here...

Even a very neat-looking low-use K200D for about half of what a new K-R costs here...

So - at the moment I'm hanging-fire until the K-R replacement is out and user-tested for "surprises" - unless a "will send to Australia" low-use K20D-etc - 2 x E-dials, sealing and all - turns up at a "grabbit!" price, before then....

I thought it was Fuji who likes to sell new cameras loaded with "Surprises" - I have an HS10 - but.....

Regards, Dave.
06-15-2011, 03:11 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by exwintech Quote
As a disability pensioner it's taken me a long time to save-up enough to buy a K-R - which, where I am, costs AUD$669.00 - with the old-series kit 18-55mm or not...

The "kit options" are that - or that plus the 50-200mm, no great prize, for $839.00. They also offer the K-X with nine (9) kit options, including old kit 18-55mm for $609.00, or the basic Sigma 17-70mm I'd prefer to the old 18-55 - for $685.00.

For either, 3 Years Warranty is another $85.00.

In my situation I'll have to keep my new camera for quite some time, and don't really want a current model with any defects, or to pay "current new" price for an older model...

So I'm noticing with increasing interest the "Sales" Posts on the Forum here - under-5000-actuations K20Ds for $200.00 less than I'd pay for a new K-R here - even low-count K-7s for about what a new K-R costs here...

Even a very neat-looking low-use K200D for about half of what a new K-R costs here...

So - at the moment I'm hanging-fire until the K-R replacement is out and user-tested for "surprises" - unless a "will send to Australia" low-use K20D-etc - 2 x E-dials, sealing and all - turns up at a "grabbit!" price, before then....

I thought it was Fuji who likes to sell new cameras loaded with "Surprises" - I have an HS10 - but.....

Regards, Dave.
people have been able to get the kr with 18-55 DAL for under $600 at JB Hi Fi
06-15-2011, 08:49 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by costas60 Quote
people have been able to get the kr with 18-55 DAL for under $600 at JB Hi Fi
Not currently I think. Unless maybe you get someone co-operative and have a receipt for someone getting one at the same price elsewhere. I did get one with the 18-55 and full Australian Warranty for $599 about 6 weeks ago from elsewhere. The guy might still be selling them (they are an authorised dealer in Brisbane that lists through ebay - all checked out before purchase). Cost me $10 extra to ship. Just checked and he has none listed at present.
DWI do them for $548 + shipping with 18-55 DA-L kit lens ($669 with 18-55 and 50-200) but the warranty isn't honoured by CR Kennedy. They have a local agent that handles waranty returns though. I've bought a 55-300 lens and tripod (arrived today) through DWI and am satisfied with their service plus they have good exposure through Facebook so any real issues with them would be apparent.

Last edited by Bill_R; 06-15-2011 at 08:54 AM.
06-16-2011, 01:32 AM   #263
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Costas60 - Yes, I read about the $625.00 or whatever somebody was able to bargain-down with cash to $599.00 at JB. According to DCW, though - JB stock is grey-market, and has no valid Australian Warranty.

You can get K20Ds with very low actuations for over $100.00 less from reliable sellers on this Forum - or a K-7 for around $100.00 more...

And if I'll have to be paying for the repairs, anyway - I'd rather put that money into repairing a K20D / K-7 than into a K-R sans-warranty...

IF I buy new - say, the new model after the K-R - we over-pay for cameras here - P&S or DSLR - so in that case, I'd buy somewhere Kennedys "approve" - such as DCW - and ante-up the extra for 3 years extended Warranty.

I'm starting to think that a K-R with "issues" for $669.00 + $80.00 extended Warranty - $749.00, against a K20D for about $450.00, might not be my best deal. For the about-$750.00 I can have the K20D and have $300.00 aside for repairs it might sooner or later need...

That gets me a camera with full external controls including 2 E-dials, and pentaprism, which might be better for the M42 Taks, etc, I'll be using a lot. Having the "latest and best-looking" camera matters nothing to my hobby uses - having a good Pentax that works properly does...

Regards, Dave.

06-16-2011, 02:33 AM   #264
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I got my KR from JB HiFi and yes I am one of the few lucky ones who has no problems with it and have no intention of parting with it.
Re the Grey import comment in Exwintechs post, mine came with a slip saying to register the camera and lens at CR Kennedys website, all details given for site etc, which I did and had no issues at all.
After all the Hoo Ha on here about the KRs, I took mine to Kennedys Brisbane agent and left it with them to check out as I could not get it to FF or any of the other faults and thought I was doing something wrong and it had to be a dud as well.
They accepted it, tested it and gave it a clean bill of health all at no charge, so JB's stock cant be Grey.
06-16-2011, 07:06 AM   #265
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Excellent point about the negative impact on sales that truthful stories like mine and the many others on the forums will have on the bottom line. I kind of have mixed feelings about scaring people away as not everyone experiences problems with the K-r. I guess we're helping to shift the perspective from "sure bet" to "a bit of a gamble" which is a realistic perception of this product line and helps build a more informed purchasing decision.

"You sound a bit spiteful, now that you have a properly functioning unit, to go and sell it to try and get back at Pentax."

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-r-forum/137537-who-else-waiting-...#ixzz1PRhgiBKk

I can see why you would say that, but try reading what I said a little more carefully. I said, "Theoretically, my K-r is better than new since the focus was adjusted, it can now properly report the battery levels for Li-ion and Ni-Mh batteries, and the e-Dial is properly lubricated."

I never said the front focus issue was "fixed", I said it was "adjusted". It still front focuses for me. Even at -10, it still front focuses at an unacceptable level for me. Honestly, I still can't tell a difference between before and after the "adjustment". I can only begin to tell you how disappointed I am about this. I'm selling the camera because I refuse to battle with it in order to take properly focused photos. In reality, I'm surrendering. The whole "take a pound of flesh from Pentax" story is something that (although probably more accurate than not) I have invented to make myself (and maybe others) feel better about this whole situation. It may be pure rationalization, but it helps me feel more in control of a situation that I can not fix - and read my posts, I have tried it all with an open mind and wallet.

So if you were selling a K-r, which of the two ethically sound sales pitches would you author?

Pitch 1:
The national, authorized Pentax repair facility had a professional Pentax service expert inspect & clean the camera and they report that the auto-focus was adjusted and is properly functioning according to manufacturer's specifications.

Pitch 2:
The authorized Pentax repair facility had a professional Pentax service expert inspect & clean the camera and they report that the auto-focus was adjusted and is properly front-focusing according to manufacturer's specifications.
06-16-2011, 08:23 AM   #266
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Sorry if I came off as snarky with that response. I took the tone of what you said to mean that the ff issue was at least mitigated, and I've seen other posts on here where it was either completely or mostly corrected by servicing. IIRC one of them still had to use the micro adjustment, but it was manageable with that.

It really sucks that you got no improvement, especially if you need to shoot under tungsten very often.
06-16-2011, 08:44 AM   #267
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No worries

I appreciate the thought, but I don't think you came off as snarky at all. In all honesty, you are correct. I am a bit bitter over the whole thing and it is probably apparent in my tone. The only thing I needed corrected is my motivation for selling the K-r.
06-16-2011, 12:32 PM   #268
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I'm wondering if newer K-r's are experiencing this problem. For those of you who purchased within the last month, please chime in.

If the problem is hardware related, it's possible Pentax may fix the issue without notice.
06-16-2011, 12:34 PM   #269
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I gave up waiting for a firmware update three weeks ago...

I finally bought a K-x. I'm very happy with it
06-16-2011, 06:30 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy97 Quote
I'm wondering if newer K-r's are experiencing this problem. For those of you who purchased within the last month, please chime in.

If the problem is hardware related, it's possible Pentax may fix the issue without notice.
I purchased a new K-r last month and it pretty much front focuses slightly beyond the available
range of correction adjustments in any non-natural light condition, using any of my 3 lenses.
(while focus in daytime/natural light is perfect)

While my old K-x was gone for warranty work I purchased a K-r thinking it would be an 'upgrade' and could then sell the K-x body once repaired,
well after a month of testing with the new K-r, my good old K-x came back from Pentax today and I've decided to keep it and sell the month old K-r instead...

My conclusions after a month of testing / fine tuning for my specific shooting condtions:

in favor or the K-x:
-autofocus slower but more predictable/accurate,
-In my opinion, image sensor more sensative at mid/high ISO (in the 400-800 range, I do mostly night shots)
-can access DEBUG_MODE to fine tune AF (done it before, great results)

issues found on K-r:
-what good are illuminated AF points if they're not accurate!
-AF illuminator beam: weak/useless, mostly gets blocked anyway by any larger diameter lens/hood (bad positioning)
-sensor not as sensative as K-x for night shots, requires 1 step faster ISO to get the equivalent result.
-limited range of AF fine tuning available in MENU, still no known DEBUG_MODE trick since released.

So there, my old K-x will do just fine for now, I'm not waiting for a magic firmware fix from Pentax to fix my 'new' camera.
If ever the K-x needs to be replaced one day, since I don't have that much invested in lenses...depending what Pentax
has to offer at that moment for an entry/mid level DSLR, lets just say I might be looking beyond a being 'different' system...

Michel

Last edited by mlatour; 06-16-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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