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06-14-2011, 10:06 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
I doubt if this issue will be fixed as Pentax replied to one of the member here that it's a hardware limitation an unlikely to be fixed by firmware.
Yeah, one post said that after contact with one tech guy (if he was even a tech guy and not just an initial level support guy). We don't really know until something "official" is said or done (or not done). I really don't think enough time has been allowed yet to say there won't be a software fix when consideration is given to the circumstances in some of Japan. I've seen the effects in my own dealings with some Japanese companies with bases a long way away from the main areas of devestation - they have it tough.

06-15-2011, 03:56 PM   #17
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They have acknowledged the issue (in their original reply, then 2 days later sent me a follow-up e-mail), and although they don't have a date from PENTAX Japan when the issue will be resolved, they do say it is being worked on. So, I don't think PENTAX is being dishonest - PENTAX USA just does not have a firm date when a firmware version will be released.

If you feel they are being dishonest, I'd suggest you take your receipt, copy it, and return the camera to the retailer for a refund.
06-19-2011, 09:30 PM   #18
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I did some FF testing.

I did some FF testing today with my camera. I've been wondering how far off it might be. I am testing with a 45 degree focus chart with a mixture of tungsten from ceiling flood lights and full spectrum lighting from a copy stand light.

With my "kit" lens I never really had any FF problem; but then at 55mm it is using f5.6 and that pretty much "hides" any FF problem.

With a 50mm @ f1.4 the problem persists and changing the camera fine tuning to "-10" moves the FF from about 6mm FF to about 2mm FF. That helps a lot to hide the problem. Apparently I would need a fine tuning of about -12 to -14 to get things optimal. Perhaps they could change the firmware to allow more than plus/minus 10?

I also verified that "live" is almost perfect. I need to turn off the fine tuning if I use live or it is BF by 4mm or so. But if "live" can be almost exactly perfect then there really should not be any reason a firmware fix can't be released to solve this.

SIDE NOTE: I started doing this testing because I'm going to get a 90mm Macro lens and even though I'll be using manual focus I wanted to know how far off the focus "beep" confirmation would be.

QUESTION: Does anyone know if there is definitive proof that the FF is seen in tungsten and/or "mixture" lighting ONLY? I am going to do some daylight testing anyway just for my own peace of mind.
06-19-2011, 09:51 PM   #19
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@keithlm

Don't know if the FF issue is under tungsten/mixture only, but you are correct when you say that your kit lens didn't show the problem (since it's a slower lens). Once you start shooting at 2.8 and faster, it was clearly visible in the *3* brand new k-r units I tried under tungsten and flourecent lighting. Would be the perfect camera for me but I just couldn't live with the fact that my k100d doesn't have such problem and it's a much older camera. So I went the k-x route, and that has worked out well I don't hold my breath for a k-r fix at this point (although I wish they did since many own this model and they've acknowledged it), but perhaps like others suggested the "fix" will be a newer replacement model to the k-r.

06-19-2011, 10:03 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by keithlm Quote



QUESTION: Does anyone know if there is definitive proof that the FF is seen in tungsten and/or "mixture" lighting ONLY? I am going to do some daylight testing anyway just for my own peace of mind.
Test under warm late afternoon light if you can. It's about the same colour temp as Tungsten.
06-19-2011, 10:37 PM   #21
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My K-r's focus is perfect in daylight but FF's badly in just about any non-natural
light situation, fine tuning to -10 helps but most shots are still too out-of-focus
to be useful compared to my older K-x in the same conditions.

Unfortunatly I do mostly low-light urban shots, almost never use it in daylight!

As mentionned above by keithlm if ever it was possible,
some sort of firmware fix to allow a greater range
of adjustment (ala K-x DEBUG_MODE) would greatly help.

(Never mind announcing new colored versions Pentax, how about fixing this issue first!!!)

Anyway, as I mentionned in another post/topic, after a month of testing/tuning
I am already fed up with my new K-r so it's back in the box and for sale.

My 'old' K-x might be a tad slower but is more accurate, plus IMO has a better
sensor for low-light performance than it's 'newer but not really improved' replacement camera...

Michel

Last edited by mlatour; 06-19-2011 at 11:13 PM.
06-20-2011, 06:34 AM   #22
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Totally agree with mlatour re the dumb colour combinations Pentax are producing ..
If you have time to make all these then surely you can run a few lab tests and get an IT genius to work on a firmware fix. If its not able to be fixed then have the guts to admit it and a mistake has been made. Earthquake stopping firmware fix but not stopping childlike colour schemes? Seriously!!
For the record I too have FF issue. Honestly thought my kr was fine until one night I got a rude shock shooting pics of my baby son attempting to crawl .. I zoomed in on the pic only to see the toy one foot infront of him in focus and his face not as clear. I spent the next hour testing it by shooting on his toys positioned near each other .. every time got FF issue .. all the fixes in these forums help but still not perfect .. I was not a happy camper that night, especially as i thought I was one of the few without FF issue
06-20-2011, 10:13 AM   #23
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Lighting temperatures

QuoteOriginally posted by keithlm Quote
QUESTION: Does anyone know if there is definitive proof that the FF is seen in tungsten and/or "mixture" lighting ONLY? I am going to do some daylight testing anyway just for my own peace of mind.
Someone else mentioned about the eventual phase-out of tungsten lamping. But it seems as though the temperatures of fluorescents and LED's are starting to approximate those of conventional tungsten's. I wonder if this FF issue / calibration / firmware fix issue will be exacerbated in the future because it seems likley that lighting temperatures are trending towards the warmer side. (I think warmer is actually lower on the Kelvin scale though.)


I want to purchase a K-R but I am presently doing the research. I am probably more interested in using the camera manually but the occasional use of AF would be nice. I am also not sure that I would ever need a lens faster than 2.8, but like I said, I am just researching now.

06-20-2011, 10:19 AM   #24
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I haven't really been following this FF issue but my question is, "is it happening even with the newer lenses like the 35, 18-135 etc?"

thanks.
06-20-2011, 10:54 AM   #25
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My understanding is that it's a problem in the body, so yes it'll happen with any lens, but will be more pronounced with faster lenses (above f/4 maybe).
06-20-2011, 11:13 AM   #26
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There's a firmware update for the k-r at Downloads - PENTAX Europe Imaging Systems Goes to version 1.10. I can't find what it is supposed to fix yet.
06-20-2011, 12:52 PM   #27
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OH nice catch with the firmware. I downloaded the old 1.01 and this "1.10" versions and verified that the files are truly different: The CRC checksums are different so it is definitely a different file. So now we just have to wait either for an official announcement OR somebody brave enough to try it. I'm not brave enough... I'm a wimp. But I will do a hex compare and see if I can narrow down the difference.

I did a few minutes of daylight testing (with the 1.01 firmware.) The FF is not as bad... but at full f1.4 the problem still seems to exist slightly. Even with a fine tune of "-10".

==========
EDIT: The header in the new file definitely says "Version 1.10 for K-R" where the old one said "Version 1.01 for K-R". Plus the readme says: "Updatable models
K-r digital SLR cameras running Firmware Ver. 1.00/1.01."

So I'm fairly certain this is a legit update. But I'm still not brave enough... I don't want a bricked camera body.

Last edited by keithlm; 06-20-2011 at 01:30 PM.
06-25-2011, 07:22 PM   #28
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I had not noticed a FF issue with my k-r until I was shooting a wedding a month ago. I was using the k-r for low light no flash in tungsten lighting. My k-20 with bracketed flash was my main camera used. Using the Pentax DA 16-45 on the k-r was working quite good. However, I switched to the F 35-70 3.5-4.5 using F5.6 for certain shots. About six pictures focused in front of the central focus point out of around fifteen shot with that lens. I didn't notice so much until I was editing. Again I had no trouble with the DA 16-45.

Also I downloaded and installed the 1.10 firmware UK update a few days ago and all is working well. However I have not tried to recreate a similar circumstance with the 35-70. But I will soon.
06-26-2011, 02:54 AM   #29
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The hardware limitation is presumably related to SAFOX IX, which is similar to what is used in the K-5., the K-X, which does not have the problem, uses the old and not so good SAFOX VIII. I frequently get wrong focus with my K-X but not a consistent FF problem.

By and large, if you want good autofocus, don't buy Pentax, get a Nikon - I think this assertion is regrettably true - I wish it wasn't as I like Pentaxs when they work properly.
06-26-2011, 11:29 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by David T Quote
I had not noticed a FF issue with my k-r until I was shooting a wedding a month ago. I was using the k-r for low light no flash in tungsten lighting. My k-20 with bracketed flash was my main camera used. Using the Pentax DA 16-45 on the k-r was working quite good. However, I switched to the F 35-70 3.5-4.5 using F5.6 for certain shots. About six pictures focused in front of the central focus point out of around fifteen shot with that lens. I didn't notice so much until I was editing. Again I had no trouble with the DA 16-45.

Also I downloaded and installed the 1.10 firmware UK update a few days ago and all is working well. However I have not tried to recreate a similar circumstance with the 35-70. But I will soon.
As everyone has said, it's a BS fix, but the focusing works really well if you switch the white balance to tungsten. I was testing this in my babies room yesterday. Took pictures of her book shelf with AWB and they were horribly out of focus and then I switched to Tungsten WB and the bindings and text came out really sharp.
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