Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-08-2011, 03:38 AM   #1
New Member




Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
Kr wireless wont flash without built in flash selected

Hi everyone,

I'm having trouble with the wireless mode on my KR. The camera will happily trigger my Metz 50 AF-1 wirelessly but ONLY if the built-in flash on the KR is selected (popped-up).

The kr manual states that it should trigger without the pop-up flash being UP (selected) but whatever I try it just wont trigger the remote flash UNLESS I have the built-in flash selected.

As the Metz flash will trigger wirelessly (when the built-in flash is UP) I'm guessing it is not a problem with the flash or its compatibility so I guess it must be a setting issue with the KR?

Am I missing something or is it a known issue? Any help would be great.

Thanks

Phil

10-08-2011, 04:35 AM   #2
New Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 6
I'm having the same problem with Metz 58 AF-2, also K-r; newest firmware.
10-08-2011, 07:14 AM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 550
Not sure about the metz but from what i can recall the pentax wireless function works with the onboard flash as a trigger to setup the slaves and trigger the slaves to flash it is not a rf or bluetooth signal only an optical signal.
10-08-2011, 08:12 AM   #4
Pentaxian
Aegon's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,410
Are you in W mode? If not, hit the down arrow (with the flash icon), select W mode, then go to the custom setting 3 menu, number 17, and set Flash in Wireless Mode to Off.

You'll still get a tiny flash, but it won't contribute to the scene in most cases.

10-08-2011, 02:22 PM   #5
New Member




Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
Original Poster
Thanks

Hi Aegon & epqwerty,

Thanks for the help. I had the W mode selected but hadn't realised that the flash triggered optically. I also didn't know that the 'Flash in Wireless Mode' menu setting needed to be changed so that the built-in flash only triggers the slave flash.

So now that I've done that it's all sorted. Thanks very much.

Rgds

Phil
01-02-2014, 10:03 AM   #6
Forum Member
Eder's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 93
I have Metz 52 wireless does not work on K-r and i belive wireless does not work on any pentax, this brand should be sued since is promessing somethong that does not work, I bought this crap to use it off-shoe and without the need of radio triggers. but this won't happen i need radio, besides there is no 3mm jack to connect a PC cable. Better buy a cheap Yongnuo, aslo ttl and pttl are wierd. Manual mode is the only that works fine cuz is mostly auto, it reads ISO and aperture from camera so only need to change power and it shows distance.
01-08-2014, 11:56 AM   #7
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 698
QuoteOriginally posted by Eder Quote
I have Metz 52 wireless does not work on K-r and i belive wireless does not work on any pentax, this brand should be sued since is promessing somethong that does not work, I bought this crap to use it off-shoe and without the need of radio triggers. but this won't happen i need radio, besides there is no 3mm jack to connect a PC cable. Better buy a cheap Yongnuo, aslo ttl and pttl are wierd. Manual mode is the only that works fine cuz is mostly auto, it reads ISO and aperture from camera so only need to change power and it shows distance.
I find it hard to believe that it would just plainly not work at all, are you sure you are setting it up correctly?

I have a 58 AF-2 which should be quite similar apart from the output power and it works fine with all four Pentax cameras I have.

Make sure to read the manual carefully on how to set up the wireless mode - in particular the fact that it needs to be initially attached to the camera to set the channel number and of course the onboard flash needs to be popped up and set to wireless controller or master.
01-08-2014, 03:53 PM   #8
Forum Member
Eder's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 93
How?

how did you do it? as i have read only is posible as servo mode but is not possible wireless. I set my camera on wireless flash then i set the same chanel on flash and camera and nothing happens camera on manual mode. dont know if is possible on other modes, but must be possible on manual

Anyway i will give another try as you mentioned. My pop up is not working this could be another reason


Last edited by Eder; 01-08-2014 at 03:57 PM. Reason: adding info
01-08-2014, 07:13 PM   #9
Site Supporter
JimJohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Superior - Michigan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,165
QuoteOriginally posted by Phil_jman Quote
I'm having trouble with the wireless mode on my KR. The camera will happily trigger my Metz 50 AF-1 wirelessly but ONLY if the built-in flash on the KR is selected (popped-up).
Phil - You have to get a signal from the camera to the flash to cause the off-camera flash to fire.... The K-r does not have a radio built-in to do that. The wireless connection is done via an IR signal embedded inside visible light produced by the pop-up flash .... this technique is far from unique to Pentax by the way. Other brands use the same technique (but different IR signals).

What you are misinterpreting is the manual states you can set the pop-up flash to be a master (light contributes to the image) or a controller (light contributes very little to the image). Either way, the pop-up flash is used to communicate with the off-camera flash wirelessly. See pages 183 & 184 in your K-r manual.
01-09-2014, 01:50 PM   #10
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 698
QuoteOriginally posted by Eder Quote
how did you do it? as i have read only is posible as servo mode but is not possible wireless. I set my camera on wireless flash then i set the same chanel on flash and camera and nothing happens camera on manual mode. dont know if is possible on other modes, but must be possible on manual

Anyway i will give another try as you mentioned. My pop up is not working this could be another reason
It is most definitely the reason. If the pop up is not working then it is impossible for the remote flash to work. The remote flash is triggered and controlled by messages encoded in the light flashes emitted from the pop up flash. No pop up flash -> no communication -> remote flash doesn't work.

Unfortunately it looks like you need to send your K-r for repairs.
01-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #11
Site Supporter
RGlasel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Saskatoon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,242
QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
The remote flash is triggered and controlled by messages encoded in the light flashes emitted from the pop up flash
You can't see it, but there's a 52 Af-1 on its plastic stand on the floor behind the armchair. The built-in flash did fire, but since it was set to be a controller only, it contributed very little to the light in this picture. This is with a K-30, so there may be differences between it and the K-r. The light sensor on the Metz was pointed at the stub wall, so it's unlikely enough light from the built-in flash was bounced behind the chair to trigger it.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-30  Photo 
01-09-2014, 02:19 PM   #12
Site Supporter
RGlasel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Saskatoon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,242
QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
an IR signal embedded inside visible light produced by the pop-up flash
IR should still require line of sight to work, my O-Rc1 remote certainly does.
01-10-2014, 11:11 AM   #13
Site Supporter
JimJohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Superior - Michigan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,165
QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
IR should still require line of sight to work, my O-Rc1 remote certainly does.
It does, but it can also be easily bounced off most surfaces. IR frequency is just below that of light visible to the human eye. On your sample (good example of IR's capability by the way), if you can see the flash from the Metz, the Metz can see the IR emitted from the pop-up flash. IR is also subject to the other limitations of visible light too, specifically it weakens with the square of the distance and can be absorbed to some extent by whatever surfaces it bounces off of.

There is one other aspect to communication via encoded signals transmitted by IR, and that is interference from other IR sources. The sun, for example, is a huge IR emitter. The IR from the sun is in the form of white noise rather than an encoded signal, so it doesn't trigger IR receivers, but at the same time, IR receivers will have problems seeing an encoded signal from smaller IR sources when the sun is present. It is like trying to see a small pen light with a big floodlight next to it. Now, unless you are trying to do fill-flash wirelessly on a sunny day, the sun won't have much impact on our flash issue - a more common issue is with wireless remote releases - but I am using it here as an extreme example. The same issue would occur to a much smaller extent with other IR sources such as heat lamps, TV remotes sending a signal at the same time in the same vicinity of the flash, and so on.
01-11-2014, 08:49 AM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 698
QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
You can't see it, but there's a 52 Af-1 on its plastic stand on the floor behind the armchair. The built-in flash did fire, but since it was set to be a controller only, it contributed very little to the light in this picture. This is with a K-30, so there may be differences between it and the K-r. The light sensor on the Metz was pointed at the stub wall, so it's unlikely enough light from the built-in flash was bounced behind the chair to trigger it.
The Pentax wireless flash system is based on optical triggering. Its not just something I think or suppose. I have actually reverse engineered most of the protocol by using a photodiode and a digital oscilloscope to observe the pulsed output of the pop up flash.

The situation you described is actually quite easy for it to handle - the flash puts out some very powerful but narrow pulses to control the remote and the sensor in the remote flash is sensitive enough to pick them up even when weakly reflected. Still at times I have encountered situations where it was not enough and had to use radio triggers instead, but that of course means I lose P-TTL and instead adjust the flash power manually.
01-11-2014, 03:47 PM   #15
Site Supporter
RGlasel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Saskatoon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,242
QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
the flash puts out some very powerful but narrow pulses
It certainly impressed me. If only the remotes for home theatre had the same power and sensitivity.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
built-in, camera, flash, issue, k-r, kr, metz, pentax k-r
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do K-x Built-In Flash and AF360FGZ together support wireless P-TTL ? Keroro Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 03-08-2010 02:13 PM
Wireless without built-in camera flash juicebox Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 4 01-22-2010 04:55 AM
In what situation can you use the external flash that the built in flash couldnt? rustynail925 Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 25 01-13-2010 01:26 PM
wireless flash using built in flash k200d dtra Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 3 04-04-2008 12:34 AM
Built in Flash & wireless JustinK10D Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 5 11-16-2007 04:10 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:33 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top