[reivax]

I'm sure this has probably been discussed in the past. I just spent the last hour taking a look at snapsort.com reviews.

At first, I was feeling a little down because I felt I had made the wrong choice in going with Pentax (only been a Pentax owner for 6 months) over Canon or Nikon. Review after review had just about every Canon and Nikon camera demolishing my K-r. I couldn't believe it. I think my K-r takes great pics. Are the Canon and Pentax cameras really that much better? Then I remembered something. I recently messed around with a friend's T2i and he was complaining his camera couldn't take pictures as nice as my K-r. When we compared the two, the K-r was clearly a much better camera.

Just for the fun of it, I compared my K-r to a Nikon camera that I had tried out and hated. Low and behold, the Nikon won? What? At this point I knew something was up. Here's the comparison I'm talking about:

Nikon P500 vs Pentax K-r

I went back and compared the K-r to the T3i and did some digging around. Snapsort takes popularity into consideration for their reviews. How is a Pentax camera supposed to win when you do that? After removing things I don't use (popularity, video, and lens selection) the Kr kills the T3i. Even if you leave in lens selection, the K-r still wins.

Score - Canon Rebel T3i vs Pentax K-r

I wonder how many people foolishly get convinced into buying a canon or nikon because of misleading reviews like these. I even saw some reviews where the K-5 was being beat out even though it won in most (or all) categories, but lost in popularity to clearly inferior cameras. I don't remember why I bought my K-r over other brands, but I'm glad I didn't go to one of these sites for my research.

[reivax]

Hopefully some K-5 owners get mad about this. Compared the Nikon P500 to the K-5. Guess which won?

Nikon P500 vs Pentax K-5

I can't believe how misleading these reviews are.

[Stone G.]

Hopefully some K-5 owners get mad about this. Compared the Nikon P500 to the K-5. Guess which won?

Nikon P500 vs Pentax K-5

I can't believe how misleading these reviews are.

Well, unfortunately you have to believe in just that.

I remember seeing a domestic review of my beloved K200D starting out as follows: "The K200D comes in a package, and perhaps one should rather leave it unpacked, because the menus are weird and strange...." Not one word about the load of features and build-quality and, of course "the K200D looses on image quality" - obviously written by one who's photographic experience was - at best - to press the shutter release on a CanoNikon i AUTO PIC mode....

Pentax had a slogan some years ago: "Be Different". Me, I like to be different. And you, you have got an excellent camera. Congratulations on that!!!

[Deimos]

snapsort is useless, any feature that has a higher number than another feature gets put as a "win" regardless if they are important features or not. these are not tested reviews but simply an application spitting out uncontextualized comparisons of random camera features.

In the P500 vs K-r review here is what is better on the K-r, just read between the lines forget the overall score, seems like the K-r destroys the P500 to me :


Faster autofocus Phase detection vs Contrast detection
Catch candid moments easily


Much larger sensor APS-C 23.6x15.8mm vs 1/2.3" 6.2x4.6mm
Around 13.5x larger sensor


Better maximum light sensitivity 12,800 ISO vs 3,200 ISO
The K-r's maximum light sensitivity is 2 f-stops better


Has interchangeable lenses Yes vs No
Can take advantage of a variety of lenses


Shoots RAW Yes vs No
Digitally develop your own photos with precise image control


Smaller 125x97x68 mm vs 116x84x103 mm
Around 20% smaller


Higher true resolution 12.2 MP vs 9.7 MP
Capture around 30% more detail in your photos


Has boost ISO 25,600 ISO vs None
Allows taking photos in darker situations, often at the cost of additional noise in the image


Significantly thinner 2.7" vs 4.1"
More than 30% thinner


Supports an external flash Yes vs No
An external flash often produces better looking flash images


Has an optical viewfinder Pentamirror vs Digital
Optical viewfinders save battery life and are more detailed


Significantly faster max shutter speed 1/6000s vs 1/2000s
3x faster max shutter speed


Longer exposures 30s vs 8s
Around 4x longer exposures

[icy]

Using snapsort.com, I started from T2i and ended up with my K-r I didn't care its scoring system, just focused on features I need.

Unfortunately, using lenshero.com gave me a Tamron 18-200mm -- not a good lens as I expected.

[Drom]

Actually I have to say a big reason why I went with the Pentax system was because of Snapsort. Snapsort actually has very good information. But, that one issue of the "Popularity" rating, I refer to as the, Sheep-Factor Index, skews their recommendations up so badly that they aren't credible. And, people actually post complaints about that on their site. But you don't want throw the baby out with the bath water because they do have good information.
As others here have mentioned, what you have to look at when you are reading their comparisons is the page with the advantages section for each camera. For instance, when comparing the T3i and the K-r list of advantages, take a look at what they have listed:

Advantages of the T3i over the K-r
Higher resolution movies
Significantly higher true resolution
Supports 24p
Has an external mic jack
Has a flip-out screen
Significantly more lenses available
Slightly lower noise at high ISO
Higher resolution screen
Slightly lighter

Advantages of the K-r over the T3i
Better image quality
Image stabilization
Better color depth
Many more cross-type focus points
More dynamic range
Has in-camera HDR
Better maximum light sensitivity
Shoots faster
Larger viewfinder
Larger sensor
Significantly smaller
Better boost ISO
More focus points
Significantly thinner
Better viewfinder coverage
Significantly faster max shutter speed
Slightly longer battery life

Gee, I wonder which camera I'm going to buy. But, wait....what? Here is their recommendation:

Snapsort recommends the Canon Rebel T3i

Canon Rebel T3i 72 vs 61 Pentax K-r

The key is that you have to click on the "Explain Scores" link underneath the scores to see what they have for their Sheep-Factor Index:

Popularity
Canon Rebel T3i - 50.0 Points
Pentax K-r - 5.0 Points

Even more puzzling is how they weigh the importance of Popularity in their overall score, giving it a higher weight than:
Image Stabilization
Continuous Shooting
Viewfinder size
Viewfinder Type
Lens Availability
Screen Resolution
Screen Size
Touch Screen

The only two criteria that they give a higher weight than "Popularity" in their scoring methodology is
Low light performance
Movie Format

Why they would spend the effort in listing detailed specifications that are highly relevant in determining which device is better, only to throw that information out the window with a scoring method that favors detail which is totally irrelevant to which device is better, is really odd
But their site is still very helpful to get a quick, at-a-glance overview of the specs on different cameras for comparisons.

[maxfield_photo]

It looks like they take the scores directly from DxO's website and apply their own skewed metric. "Popularity" should not be a criterion for camera performance.

[Philoslothical]

I've ranted about this before. Their "popularity" statistic is just based on keyword searches on their own site, too. Hardly representative of anything, yet heavily weighted. Their statistic for "number of lenses" is misleading too. Perhaps it should be "number of current production lenses", but it is not representative of the actual numbers being sold new for a given camera, and certainly not representative of the actual number of compatible lenses available for a given camera.

Face it, snapsort are Canikon shills. Most of the objective stats seem relatively accurate, and I'm sure they're accurate because they're derived from other sites, but snapsort.com has zero interest in being objective in their comparisons and reviews.

Crappy site, because they're liars. This popularity skewing has been brought to their attention multiple times, and they just don't give a damn.

[Brenden]

Hey guys
I work for Snapsort and wanted to clear up a few things. Why did the Pentax K-r and K-5 lose against the Nikon P500? Because you are comparing a DSLR with an interchangeable lens to a entry level super zoom camera. Our recommendation engine gives the Nikon P500 75.9 points because it has a built in lens, but because you can change the lens on a DSLR and Mirrorless camera we do not give the lens any points. This skews the numbers in favor of the inferior Nikon P500, you can see the score for the P500 vs K-R here and the P500 vs K-5 here.
It is a hole in our recommendation but 99% of our users are compare products in the same or similar product catagorie, and it is rare that someone would compare a DSLR to an entry level camera. Our recommendations also say "Snapsort recommends the Nikon Coolpix P500. This recommendation, however, should be taken with a grain of salt since it doesn't always make sense to compare a super zoom with a entry-level DSLR."
We are planning to add in a "virtual lens" at some point, to eliminate this problem, but again it only really effects the score when you compare a DSLR or Mirrorless to a point and shoot camera.
Snapsort strives to be objective, which is why we compare cameras based on their stats and features and not on our own personal preferences, we use Popularity to fill in the gaps. Our users help us crowdsource our popularity scores, based on what cameras they are looking at and searching for. This gives us an idea of how "good" a camera is beyond its stats.

I hope I have dispelled any misgivings you many have about Snapsort, I would be happy to answer any more of your questions if you have them.

P.S. If you check out our recommend page you can see that the Pentax K-5 is our #3 recommendation for DSLR, also on that list are 4 Nikon's, 4 Canon's and 2 Sony cameras.

[Philoslothical]

If you run a comparison of the Canon T2i vs. the Pentax K-r, the K-r loses due to the subjective and worthless "popularity" criteria. The K-r is better in virtually every spec that affects image IQ, and has a number of functionally better features.

If you run a comparison of the Nikon D3100 vs. the Pentax K-r, the K-r loses due to "popularity" and "movie format". This despite the Nikon having severe limitations like no stabilization, no focus motor, no metering of manual lenses, a dinky little screen, a sad 3 fps continuous, etc.

I stand by my last post. Snapsort intentionally skews results towards Canikon models with its popularity criteria, and bizarre weighting scheme for other features (e.g. these are DSLRs, not video cameras, why is 1080p such a huge deal over 720p?).

[Deimos]

Snapsort actually has very good information. But, that one issue of the "Popularity" rating, I refer to as the, Sheep-Factor Index, skews their recommendations up so badly that they aren't credible.

If you run a comparison of the Canon T2i vs. the Pentax K-r, the K-r loses due to the subjective and worthless "popularity" criteria. The K-r is better in virtually every spec that affects image IQ, and has a number of functionally better features.

If you run a comparison of the Nikon D3100 vs. the Pentax K-r, the K-r loses due to "popularity" and "movie format". This despite the Nikon having severe limitations like no stabilization, no focus motor, no metering of manual lenses, a dinky little screen, a sad 3 fps continuous, etc.

I stand by my last post. Snapsort intentionally skews results towards Canikon models with its popularity criteria, and bizarre weighting scheme for other features (e.g. these are DSLRs, not video cameras, why is 1080p such a huge deal over 720p?).

+1

At the end of the day Snapsort doesnt seem to provide any info that I cant get by looking at the manufacturer specs of a product. And what the hell does "popularity" have to do with Photography? What is this highschool?

[hangman43]

I can not figure why the K-5 is classified as a entry level DSLR

[GlennG]

Even more puzzling is how they weigh the importance of

.....quite a few of the categories, if you were to ask me. I find quite a bit of value in the Snapsort information, but I find that I have to actually recreate my own scoring system, with appropriate weights. Their "video" weight is too much, if you ask me. But if video is THAT important to you, maybe you DO give it a high weight. (However, I'm puzzled - if video is THAT important to you, why aren't you looking at bona-fide pro video cams?) Also, the weather resistance, something I see of great importance here, is not even listed - hmmm. So again, I like the data, but find that I have to re-sort it and re-weight it to have the meaning it needs to have (for me). As for the Kr, I think it holds up well for the vast majority of performance criteria that really matter. It is a nicely spec'd and priced unit.

[reivax]

Hey guys
I work for Snapsort and wanted to clear up a few things. Why did the Pentax K-r and K-5 lose against the Nikon P500? Because you are comparing a DSLR with an interchangeable lens to a entry level super zoom camera. Our recommendation engine gives the Nikon P500 75.9 points because it has a built in lens, but because you can change the lens on a DSLR and Mirrorless camera we do not give the lens any points. This skews the numbers in favor of the inferior Nikon P500, you can see the score for the P500 vs K-R here and the P500 vs K-5 here.

Of course the P500 and the Kr are not in the same field. That was the whole point of making the comparison between the two. Something is definitely wrong when one clearly inferior camera still manages to beat out the clearly better camera due to a bad weighting system. It seems completely irresponsible for a website that provides the service that it does to offer such distorted information.

I hope I have dispelled any misgivings you many have about Snapsort, I would be happy to answer any more of your questions if you have them.

P.S. If you check out our recommend page you can see that the Pentax K-5 is our #3 recommendation for DSLR, also on that list are 4 Nikon's, 4 Canon's and 2 Sony cameras.

I don't think anything has been dispelled. The individual ratings seem to work fine, but the weight given to specific categories is atrocious. I don't think your reasoning for giving the popularity category so much weight is acceptable.

If more people buy Ford Focus' than any BMW model, would you give the Focus a higher rating than a BMW? I know the T3i is not a Focus and the Kr is definitely not a BMW, but I hope you get the analogy that I'm trying to make. That popularity weighting needs to go. Why would that even be a category? I guess Jersey Shore is a much better show than Arrested Development. It is more popular, so it must be better. Sounds right to me...

T3i=72; Kr-61?

Something to consider for the criteria you use:

Total Scores Given:
T3i - 301.9
Kr - 253.1

The T3i sure seems to be a whole lot better than the Kr. But wait...

Without Popularity Category:
T3i - 251.9
Kr - 248.1

Now the cameras seem a little more comparable. But wait. This is a picture taking device...

Without Popularity & Movie Categories:
T3i - 176.9
Kr - 214.4

What happened there?

That is why it is a problem. These are supposed to review DSLR's right? I thought DSLR's were supposed to take pictures, not make friends for you. The movie category I can live with, but popularity?

The weight scale punishes and praises cameras because of marketing, not because of their quality.

[Drom]

Hey guys
I work for Snapsort and wanted to clear up a few things. Why did the Pentax K-r and K-5 lose against the Nikon P500? Because you are comparing a DSLR with an interchangeable lens to a entry level super zoom camera.

Hello Brenden,
I agree, you have the disclaimer very clearly listed any time someone uses the tool to compare devices in dissimilar categories. And to be fair, I went to your site yesterday after I saw this thread and ran a comparison with the P500 to the Canon 7D . The same recommendation for the P500 came up as it did with the K-5. So, you have the disclaimer advising people that it doesn't make sense to compare apples with oranges.

When I was comparing cameras in the same category a while back, I got some very useful information from your page with the at-glance list of specifications and advantages (thank you!). But when I noticed that some of your recommendations were not representative of the data that you presented on that page, I took a closer look at your scoring criteria and decided (in my opinion) it is very flawed. So, from that point on, I used your site to review specifications, but not your recommendations.

I think one of the things which probably irks people is that one natural result of your scoring methodology is that it will usually give the nod to the 800 pound gorilla in the room; even when their product is not better. That's confusing, particularly for entry-level consumers trying to seriously evaluate different cameras and systems.

But your site was fun for me when I was shopping for a DSLR.