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12-28-2011, 06:35 PM   #46
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In the Interest of Full Disclosure

QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Had I known about this issue I would not have bought one
Barry,

If you insist upon continuing your pathetic and obsessive crusade over the Kr you no longer own, you should at least be truthful, don't you think?

Here are a few cuts from the other forum where you posted a 3 part report on your Kr purchase in November of this year, more than a year after the camera was introduced :

"First off I might not have even looked at the K-r due to a huge number of reports of AF issues esp FF/BF. I can report that I see no obvious problems in this regard even shooting in horribly low light and very low Kelvin light temperatures even with no AF assist light. I'm puzzled by the response on the forum suggesting there is something wrong AF wise with this model..on the contrary I find the AF excellent so far in good and poor lighting."

"AF wise aside from having an AF adjustment albeit only a single one the performance seems a tad more nippy v the K-x and is more sure of itself in low light locking quicker and with less hunting."

Had you known, right....

Ray

12-28-2011, 06:59 PM   #47
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Oh, that's rich.
12-28-2011, 08:56 PM   #48
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Haha. Woops.
12-29-2011, 04:51 AM   #49
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Ray seems to be having some problems with identity. I'm well aware of the posts on DPR from that guy who also had some serious problems. And I read that post too, but fair play to the guy who actually noted the problem and was public about it.

I think some folks are living in a bubble on this one Pentax "fully admit the problem" so saying there isn't one is living in denial of the truth. People like Ray are simply "defenders of the faith" he'll defend Pentax for making a faulty product to the death. Such a poster does no service to the Pentax community. We all like Pentax but you can't over look this one even if you are a die hard Pentax fan

12-29-2011, 05:10 PM   #50
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i got mine for christmas and am a complete noob to photography.

Sure I've taken some 99% terrible pictures, 1% good. but atm I'm putting that down to user - error. atm i absolutely love the camera its self!
12-29-2011, 06:08 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Ray seems to be having some problems with identity. I'm well aware of the posts on DPR from that guy who also had some serious problems. And I read that post too, but fair play to the guy who actually noted the problem and was public about it.

I think some folks are living in a bubble on this one Pentax "fully admit the problem" so saying there isn't one is living in denial of the truth. People like Ray are simply "defenders of the faith" he'll defend Pentax for making a faulty product to the death. Such a poster does no service to the Pentax community. We all like Pentax but you can't over look this one even if you are a die hard Pentax fan
Feel free to show me where I have said one word about the Kr, your Kr, or any Kr not having a problem, or any word from me defending the Kr.

You will not find any such post.

I see many posts claiming Kr AF problems in Tungsten light, and I see many that have not seen such problems and are very happy with the Kr, and then I see Barry Fitzgerald (AKA Mr. Spocko), who claims to have owned a defective Kr, and also also claims that it has been returned, popping up on various forums acting as if he was duped and had no knowledge of any sort of focus problem with the Kr.

You have been exposed, Barry, and you are now simply making yourself look even more foolish.

We got it:

You were unhappy with your Kr (assuming you really owned one).

You returned it and claim you are going to buy Nikon.

Fine.

Do everyone a favor and move on and stop trolling the forums as you have nothing of value to contribute to those that still shoot Pentax.

Ray
12-30-2011, 03:58 AM   #52
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I think you have some personal issues which need to be addressed and not vented on public forums. I am not Barry Fitzgerald ala dpreview poster and I find it pretty insulting that you continue to follow this line even though I have corrected you on it. I really can't see what your problem is.
As if only one person in the entire world has a defective K-r I think that's very naive. I have owned a number of Pentax bodies over the years before the K-r and K-x and have been a Pentax user since 2008

We don't need a forum policeman and Ray nobody asked you to take up the job so for the sake of all of us please give it a rest and stop spouting your fanboy nonsense and trying to degrade a very serious issue to some K-r users.

This thread invited the honest opinion of K-r owners and users and not for people to be bullied and insulted by giving their honest views on this. You contributions to this thread have added nothing at all to the discussion, bar insulting people in a personal way.
And I have no intentions of buying Nikon either. The only persona trolling around here is Ray.
12-30-2011, 05:37 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
As if only one person in the entire world has a defective K-r I think that's very naive. I have owned a number of Pentax bodies over the years before the K-r and K-x and have been a Pentax user since 2008
Feel free to show me where I made such a claim.

Also, while you are at it, feel free to share your Kr images that show the problems you say you have encountered. I have not seen any examples from you. At this point, we do not know if you really even own or have owned a Kr.

You also converniently throw about the term fanboy, but when challenged to show where I have made even one defense of the Kr, you simply ignore the question because you cannot find any such "Fanboyism" posts from me on this issue.

QuoteQuote:
We don't need a forum policeman and Ray nobody asked you to take up the job so for the sake of all of us please give it a rest and stop spouting your fanboy nonsense and trying to degrade a very serious issue to some K-r users.
We? You speak for everyone now?

You have been accused of trolling these forums by at least one other member, so it is not just me, and you clearly recently joined this forum just to troll and push your crusade about the Kr. Your posting history makes that very clear. You should take your own advice about giving it a rest.

QuoteQuote:
The only persona trolling around here is Ray.
The only "persona" in this discussion is "Mr. Spocko". Unlike you, I use my real name.

Ray

12-30-2011, 09:23 AM   #54
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As the guy who started this thread, I hate the fact that it has turned into a quarrel.
By far, the most serious issue seems to be the focus. There are several people complaining about the AF performance in tungsten light.
Let me know if I understand correctly: switching to manual focus will solve the problem? If so, then where is the problem?! Are you kidding, is that simple? I mean, I would be happy to own a camera that has to be used in manual mode when indoors under artificial light, that costs as much (or little) as the K-r and has that kind of specs. I wouldn`t mind at all. Too bad they`re not making it anymore (or so I hear) and probably by the time I`ll have the money it won`t be available.
So I`m asking you again: manual focus eliminates front/ back focusing?
Thanks.
12-30-2011, 09:54 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ispriluc Quote
Let me know if I understand correctly: switching to manual focus will solve the problem? If so, then where is the problem?! Are you kidding, is that simple?
You understand correctly. Using Live View also works around the issue (LV uses contrast detect AF, whereas the other modes use phase detect AF, which is the one with an issue with tungsten). When appropriate, stopping down a bit masks the issue, as well.

The K-r isn't officially discontinued yet. No idea if it's still being produced, but there's lots of stock still available. Even then, there are great deals on used ones, and will be for years.
12-30-2011, 11:25 AM   #56
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Ispriluc, you do understand correctly as Philoslothical explained. The K-r has some quirks, but it is a fantastic value and the image quality is wonderful. Just take a look around at some photos posted by folks who own one. Good luck, hope you find a great deal on one!
12-30-2011, 03:44 PM   #57
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Of course manual focus avoids the FF issue but you will have to ignore the AF confirm in the VF and beep because that can be "off"
Live view uses contrast detect AF so does not suffer from this problem at all

If you are happy to use both of those you might be happy with a K-r
12-30-2011, 04:29 PM   #58
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Maybe yes, Maybe No

QuoteOriginally posted by Ispriluc Quote
As the guy who started this thread, I hate the fact that it has turned into a quarrel.
By far, the most serious issue seems to be the focus. There are several people complaining about the AF performance in tungsten light.
Let me know if I understand correctly: switching to manual focus will solve the problem? If so, then where is the problem?! Are you kidding, is that simple? I mean, I would be happy to own a camera that has to be used in manual mode when indoors under artificial light, that costs as much (or little) as the K-r and has that kind of specs. I wouldn`t mind at all. Too bad they`re not making it anymore (or so I hear) and probably by the time I`ll have the money it won`t be available.
So I`m asking you again: manual focus eliminates front/ back focusing?
Thanks.
Manual focusing without using the AF confirm as mentioned is not inherently going to focus anywhere but where you choose.

LiveView also seems to work, but it may or may not be convenient for you.

However, with manual focus there are a few things to consider, the most important of which is the fact that the focus screen is not designed for fast lenses and cannot even show you an accurate picture of the depth of focus at very wide apertures like f1.4. If you stop down a bit, this likely will not be an issue as the DOF will cover any small errors.

In addition, the manual focus is very depenedent upon the focus screen being shimmed accurately, so you should test your setup to see if it really is in focus when it looks like it is. The screen can be re-shimmed to correct any difference you find. You can search the forums here for discussions of this.

It could be that you are shooting below the design limit of the AF system, which is -1EV with a 50mm f1.4. What many do not understand is that when you are shooting with a slower lens, the lower limit for ambient light for the AF module moves up to less dark levels. For example, if you are shooting with a lens that has a maximaum aperture of f4.0, the lower limit will be 2EV, not -1Ev. A f5.6 lens (like the 55-300 4.5-5.8) would be 3EV if you were shooting near the 300mm end. This is so because the AF is always done at max aperture, and a slower lens lets less light into the module.

You can estimate the EV value by the shutter speed, ISO and aperture (there are online calculators) and you can look at your EXIF data to see what the camera thought the EV level was at the time of capture. This is not a perfect measure of EV, but it is better than nothing.

I would also check the AF calibration with your lenses. You might not be able to correct the problem, but you might be able to set a compromise calibration that will work for you. This is what I did with my K20 bodies as every Pentax DSLR I have owned exhibits FF in Tungsten light.

Assuming that you are seeing issues where the Kr will not focus properly and you are within the specified range for the AF module, I would send the camera and lens back to Pentax for calibration. Some report getting back Krs that work much better after calibration, although others report no improvement.

It might be that none of this applies to you and that your Kr will never AF per specifications, but these things are worth looking into.

I hope this is helpful.

Ray
12-30-2011, 05:14 PM   #59
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Just one small point to add to that: When manual focusing, some people get to know what to expect, so they focus just slightly past the focus confirmation when shooting in tungsten light. It would take some trial and error, as it probably wouldn't look much different in the viewfinder, but some people have said it works for them.

Ray, that's one of the most comprehensive posts on the subject that I've seen. I wonder what percentage of people complaining about ff are actually just shooting in under lit conditions.

I think what people need to realize about this issue is that it only comes into play in a small subset of conditions. There have been posts on this board crying about ff in lots of cases where it simply didn't fit, e.g. people saying they have the issue in MF mode, too (which could be a shimming issue, if not just user error). Others have posted samples that clearly missed focus, often locking onto something they didn't intend (understandable, if they think the focus points are discrete points). A few have even claimed it happened to them in Live View. The worst part of this is that the loudest complainers are usually the frustrated beginners (or at least new to digital) that haven't a real clue what their issue is, and are sometimes too angry to learn.
01-04-2012, 07:30 PM   #60
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I'll repeat in Europe low kelvin lighting is very common. It's a nice attempt to dismiss user reports and blame them for the problem. Sadly though it's quite clear that our friend above simply tried to pass it off and make all manner of excuses up rather than there is a problem with the AF. Which there clearly is.
It's not about newbies and inexperienced shooters, it's not even about the AF points being on other subjects (they are large the real AF points but that is not the issue) nor is it about the loudest complainers are frustrated begginers who are angry.

I really can't see what motivation a poster has to dimiss what is clearly a major issue for many K-r users. And one which has not gone away for them. You can't blame people for being upset at the issue, it's however shocking to see any poster trying to pass this off as dumb users who don't know what they're doing. You can send the camera back but if you calibrate it for tungsten light it will be way off for normal light. Hence the problem cannot be solved. If Pentax admit the problem (and they do) I can't see the point in trying to debate that anymore. There is no current solution to this K-r FF problem
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