What am I doing wrong?

Jekka_May · 02-17-2016, 10:30 PM

Hi all.
I hadn't used my camera in a few months when I took this photo. I have never been real happy with the sharpness of my images but I know that is my problem. But this has happened. I don't know if I have done something wrong or if the camera needs a service. I tried taking more photos (because I could see straight away that they weren't sharp - normally it takes them getting onto the computer screen for me to notice) with differing settings to fix the problem but it just got worse. I tried changing ISO and shutter speed because I was trying to get the two people to be sharp but as I said it just got worse. Can this image and info tell you what I am doing wrong. Sorry there isn't much info because it was shot in JPEG (I had it set to that for a previous photo that I knew I wouldn't be able to convert before taking to get printed at a kiosk).

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VisualDarkness · 02-17-2016, 10:38 PM

Why did you shoot at F22? That is way into the diffraction zone so while everything will be in focus nothing will be sharp.

Aaron28 · 02-17-2016, 10:43 PM

honestly I do not know but f22 is really high.....1/10 is rather long.....and spot metering may not be the best as they take up most of the frame anyways.....the K-r is ok at 400iso but i'd prefer 200 or 100.......but I don't know much especially when it comes to shooting people and curious what others may say

**jatrax** · 02-17-2016, 10:46 PM - **1 Like**

Aperture f/22, shutter speed 1/10, ISO 400. So all of those are wrong.

Aperture of f/22 is for those occasions when nothing else will do because you are well into diffraction softening of the image. F/11 - f/13 is the limit here.

Shutter speed of 1/10 is too long for hand holding or for the subject to remain still. You shot at 32mm so the slowest I would have used would be 1/50th and with people in the frame no slower than 1/100 (just my rule of thumb)

ISO is at 400 which is going to introduce some noise making the image seem even softer, especially since in jpeg the camera likely applied noise reduction. I rarely shoot over ISO 200 and prefer 100

For this shot I would have started at f/5.6, ISO 200 and used Av mode to get the proper shutter speed.

Jekka_May · 02-17-2016, 10:46 PM

To be honest, I was trying to take a quick photo because the guy was getting annoyed that I was taking too long taking the photos.

Previous photos had her in focus but not him. Started at F8 then F10 and so on. All had him no in focus. I also had it on Apature priority

Thank you for that info.

VisualDarkness · 02-17-2016, 10:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Aaron28

honestly I do not know but f22 is really high.....1/10 is rather long.....and spot metering may not be the best as they take up most of the frame anyways.....the K-r is ok at 400iso but i'd prefer 200 or 100.......but I don't know much especially when it comes to shooting people and curious what others may say

F8 ISO200 1/40 would have worked much better for sure.

---------- Post added 02-18-16 at 06:54 AM ----------

Originally posted by Jekka_May

To be honest, I was trying to take a quick photo because the guy was getting annoyed that I was taking too long taking the photos.

Previous photos had her in focus but not him. Started at F8 then F10 and so on. All had him no in focus.

Thank you for that info.

That will always be the problem close up with faces at varying distances from the camera. The depth of field simply isn´t enough to cover all in many cases. The best thing is to focus in-between the varying distances so both will be "equally sharp/unsharp". This has made me pull my hair more than once when photographing evens and people don´t line up at the same distance from the camera.

At F22 you will most likely get both in focus no matter what but nothing will be really sharp. 1/10s is extremely slow even for posing humans too so it probably didnt help.

**jatrax** · 02-17-2016, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Jekka_May

To be honest, I was trying to take a quick photo because the guy was getting annoyed that I was taking too long taking the photos.

Just a tip, but I find it safer to practice on things other than big, hairy, tattooed guys.

Save that subject for when you can take that shot instantly without having to think about the settings. And that takes practice.

**Digitalis** · 02-17-2016, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

I find it safer to practice on things other than big, hairy, tattooed guys.

*ahem*

Jekka_May · 02-17-2016, 11:05 PM

Ok, Thanks everyone. I appreciate your replies.

So would I have been better backing up so that I was further away from them then zooming in? Would that have made more difference to the F stop I would have had to use?

I totally agree about the shutter speed - I am pretty shaky so I like to have a quick shutter speed but because it was on AV priority I couldn't change that other than upping the ISO. As you can see, it wasn't a very dark day so I don't know why it was still a slow shutter speed (other than the fact to using F22)

**interested_observer** · 02-17-2016, 11:08 PM - **1 Like**

I think that there are several things that you are able to do...

Aperture - I see that you are using the DA L 18-35. There are a number of lens reviews that evaluate the sharpness. The lens in general is sharpest when it is stopped down some. In general F8 appears to be the general "sweet" point for the lens across the focal lengths. You can play with the chart here trying to get the most of the chart green by changing the aperture, for each of the focal lengths. F22 is way too small as others have posted you are getting a lot of diffraction that reduces the sharpness. Also, I would not really go higher than f11 where diffraction starts.

Pentax DA 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 AL review: Digital Photography Review

ISO - the lower the ISO the less noise you will get that will reduce the apparent sharpness. I would start at ISO 100 (or as low as the Kr will let you go - which may be 200), with f8 for the aperture, and see what the shutter speed would be, then possibly adjust the ISO if the shutter speed is too slow.

Shutter speed - I would try to keep it faster than 1/100 sec to reduce the possibility of motion when hand holding the camera.

So, in general - you want to try to find a combination of aperture, ISO and shutter speed that would keep the aperture at or near f8, with the ISO as low as possible, with the shutter speed as fast as possible (really no lower than about 1/100 or others will suggest 1/focal length).

Hope that helps

Aaron28 · 02-17-2016, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by Jekka_May

it wasn't a very dark day so I don't know why it was still a slow shutter speed

spot metering prolly slowed down the speed in av........

---------- Post added 02-18-16 at 12:16 AM ----------

Originally posted by Digitalis

*ahem*

haha!

Jekka_May · 02-17-2016, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

I think that there are several things that you are able to do...

Aperture - I see that you are using the DA L 18-35. There are a number of lens reviews that evaluate the sharpness. The lens in general is sharpest when it is stopped down some. In general F8 appears to be the general "sweet" point for the lens across the focal lengths. You can play with the chart here trying to get the most of the chart green by changing the aperture, for each of the focal lengths. F22 is way too small as others have posted you are getting a lot of diffraction that reduces the sharpness. Also, I would not really go higher than f11 where diffraction starts.

Pentax DA 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 AL review: Digital Photography Review

ISO - the lower the ISO the less noise you will get that will reduce the apparent sharpness. I would start at ISO 100 (or as low as the Kr will let you go - which may be 200), with f8 for the aperture, and see what the shutter speed would be, then possibly adjust the ISO if the shutter speed is too slow.

Shutter speed - I would try to keep it faster than 1/100 sec to reduce the possibility of motion when hand holding the camera.

So, in general - you want to try to find a combination of aperture, ISO and shutter speed that would keep the aperture at or near f8, with the ISO as low as possible, with the shutter speed as fast as possible (really no lower than about 1/100 or others will suggest 1/focal length).

Hope that helps

Thank you for the info - that will be food for thought next time I take photos.

**Digitalis** · 02-17-2016, 11:25 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by interested_observer

F22 is way too small as others have posted you are getting a lot of diffraction that reduces the sharpness. Also, I would not really go higher than f11 where diffraction starts.

Just to illustrate the effects of diffraction:

@ 100% crop Left image: f/29, Right image: f/5.6

Jekka_May · 02-17-2016, 11:28 PM

WOW!!!!! Okay, I see now. Thank you so much for a visual.

---------- Post added 02-18-2016 at 04:34 PM ----------

I normally try keeping at around f/5 - f/8 (because I like shallow DOF) so I guess that is why I have never run into this issue before.

Thanks everyone

**interested_observer** · 02-17-2016, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Just to illustrate the effects of diffraction:

Pictures are worth 10K words..... Wonderful example!

02-17-2016, 11:08 PM - 1 Like	#10
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	I think that there are several things that you are able to do... Aperture - I see that you are using the DA L 18-35. There are a number of lens reviews that evaluate the sharpness. The lens in general is sharpest when it is stopped down some. In general F8 appears to be the general "sweet" point for the lens across the focal lengths. You can play with the chart here trying to get the most of the chart green by changing the aperture, for each of the focal lengths. F22 is way too small as others have posted you are getting a lot of diffraction that reduces the sharpness. Also, I would not really go higher than f11 where diffraction starts. Pentax DA 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 AL review: Digital Photography Review ISO - the lower the ISO the less noise you will get that will reduce the apparent sharpness. I would start at ISO 100 (or as low as the Kr will let you go - which may be 200), with f8 for the aperture, and see what the shutter speed would be, then possibly adjust the ISO if the shutter speed is too slow. Shutter speed - I would try to keep it faster than 1/100 sec to reduce the possibility of motion when hand holding the camera. So, in general - you want to try to find a combination of aperture, ISO and shutter speed that would keep the aperture at or near f8, with the ISO as low as possible, with the shutter speed as fast as possible (really no lower than about 1/100 or others will suggest 1/focal length). Hope that helps

02-17-2016, 11:19 PM	#12
Jekka_May New Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8 Original Poster	Originally posted by interested_observer I think that there are several things that you are able to do... Aperture - I see that you are using the DA L 18-35. There are a number of lens reviews that evaluate the sharpness. The lens in general is sharpest when it is stopped down some. In general F8 appears to be the general "sweet" point for the lens across the focal lengths. You can play with the chart here trying to get the most of the chart green by changing the aperture, for each of the focal lengths. F22 is way too small as others have posted you are getting a lot of diffraction that reduces the sharpness. Also, I would not really go higher than f11 where diffraction starts. Pentax DA 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 AL review: Digital Photography Review ISO - the lower the ISO the less noise you will get that will reduce the apparent sharpness. I would start at ISO 100 (or as low as the Kr will let you go - which may be 200), with f8 for the aperture, and see what the shutter speed would be, then possibly adjust the ISO if the shutter speed is too slow. Shutter speed - I would try to keep it faster than 1/100 sec to reduce the possibility of motion when hand holding the camera. So, in general - you want to try to find a combination of aperture, ISO and shutter speed that would keep the aperture at or near f8, with the ISO as low as possible, with the shutter speed as fast as possible (really no lower than about 1/100 or others will suggest 1/focal length). Hope that helps Thank you for the info - that will be food for thought next time I take photos.

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02-17-2016, 10:38 PM	#2
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Why did you shoot at F22? That is way into the diffraction zone so while everything will be in focus nothing will be sharp.

02-17-2016, 10:43 PM	#3
Aaron28 Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,131	honestly I do not know but f22 is really high.....1/10 is rather long.....and spot metering may not be the best as they take up most of the frame anyways.....the K-r is ok at 400iso but i'd prefer 200 or 100.......but I don't know much especially when it comes to shooting people and curious what others may say

02-17-2016, 10:46 PM - 1 Like	#4
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Aperture f/22, shutter speed 1/10, ISO 400. So all of those are wrong. Aperture of f/22 is for those occasions when nothing else will do because you are well into diffraction softening of the image. F/11 - f/13 is the limit here. Shutter speed of 1/10 is too long for hand holding or for the subject to remain still. You shot at 32mm so the slowest I would have used would be 1/50th and with people in the frame no slower than 1/100 (just my rule of thumb) ISO is at 400 which is going to introduce some noise making the image seem even softer, especially since in jpeg the camera likely applied noise reduction. I rarely shoot over ISO 200 and prefer 100 For this shot I would have started at f/5.6, ISO 200 and used Av mode to get the proper shutter speed.

02-17-2016, 10:46 PM	#5
Jekka_May New Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8 Original Poster	To be honest, I was trying to take a quick photo because the guy was getting annoyed that I was taking too long taking the photos. Previous photos had her in focus but not him. Started at F8 then F10 and so on. All had him no in focus. I also had it on Apature priority Thank you for that info.

02-17-2016, 10:47 PM - 1 Like	#6
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by Aaron28 honestly I do not know but f22 is really high.....1/10 is rather long.....and spot metering may not be the best as they take up most of the frame anyways.....the K-r is ok at 400iso but i'd prefer 200 or 100.......but I don't know much especially when it comes to shooting people and curious what others may say F8 ISO200 1/40 would have worked much better for sure. ---------- Post added 02-18-16 at 06:54 AM ---------- Originally posted by Jekka_May To be honest, I was trying to take a quick photo because the guy was getting annoyed that I was taking too long taking the photos. Previous photos had her in focus but not him. Started at F8 then F10 and so on. All had him no in focus. Thank you for that info. That will always be the problem close up with faces at varying distances from the camera. The depth of field simply isn´t enough to cover all in many cases. The best thing is to focus in-between the varying distances so both will be "equally sharp/unsharp". This has made me pull my hair more than once when photographing evens and people don´t line up at the same distance from the camera. At F22 you will most likely get both in focus no matter what but nothing will be really sharp. 1/10s is extremely slow even for posing humans too so it probably didnt help.

02-17-2016, 10:56 PM	#7
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Jekka_May To be honest, I was trying to take a quick photo because the guy was getting annoyed that I was taking too long taking the photos. Just a tip, but I find it safer to practice on things other than big, hairy, tattooed guys. Save that subject for when you can take that shot instantly without having to think about the settings. And that takes practice.

02-17-2016, 11:05 PM	#8
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by jatrax I find it safer to practice on things other than big, hairy, tattooed guys. ahem

02-17-2016, 11:15 PM	#11
Aaron28 Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,131	Originally posted by Jekka_May it wasn't a very dark day so I don't know why it was still a slow shutter speed spot metering prolly slowed down the speed in av........ ---------- Post added 02-18-16 at 12:16 AM ---------- Originally posted by Digitalis ahem haha!

02-17-2016, 11:25 PM - 3 Likes	#13
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by interested_observer F22 is way too small as others have posted you are getting a lot of diffraction that reduces the sharpness. Also, I would not really go higher than f11 where diffraction starts. Just to illustrate the effects of diffraction: @ 100% crop Left image: f/29, Right image: f/5.6

02-17-2016, 11:28 PM	#14
Jekka_May New Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8 Original Poster	WOW!!!!! Okay, I see now. Thank you so much for a visual. ---------- Post added 02-18-2016 at 04:34 PM ---------- I normally try keeping at around f/5 - f/8 (because I like shallow DOF) so I guess that is why I have never run into this issue before. Thanks everyone

02-17-2016, 11:58 PM	#15
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Originally posted by Digitalis Just to illustrate the effects of diffraction: Pictures are worth 10K words..... Wonderful example!