Just thought I'd comment on a couple things here that have been brought up, and I'm glad a lively discussion is ensuing. These three comments fit together to me so I'll comment at the end.
Originally posted by Ash True, photography is much more than just following rules - and there may be one or two judges that may feel strongly about those rules, but don't let that discourage you or anyone else from submitting (unless a boycott is your real intention
).
Seriously, just submit the work you want and feel is what a top gallery should have - and don't feel bad that it doesn't get through - if you know it's good work, it's PEG's loss
.
Originally posted by yeatzee mine was marked down because of sharpness being "questionable due to shallow DOF." F/1.2 was used.....
Originally posted by tuco So using a soft focus lens or filter to create a mood is out of the question then.
Hopefully, if a photog is at the level of experience to be qualified for judging here or anywhere else, they would know the "rules" of good photographic composition, and finishing, whether from film days or digital only. They would know to expect shallow DOF at f/1.2, but also know that if it's a macro shot it will have a shallow DOF.
A judge should not only know the rules, but also how breaking them can contribute to the shots. They should also know, I feel, about different films and how they looked classically (I'm thinking about how certain B/W films exhibited a certain graininess, or the feel of Kodachrome vs Ektachrome as examples. I'm sure there's plenty more...) Not that that knowledge would have to be extensive, but to know that if a photo is submitted that looks grainy for instance, that it could be exactly what the photog wanted, and not a "flaw" at all. It may still not be accepted, but IMO, it really comes back to that statement in PPG "would the photo make you stop and take a second look in a gallery" and certainly not all photos that are "correct technically" fit into this category. Just as not all "artsy" ones would either. It's the most subjective part of a photo, but probably one of the most important.
As I like to offer possible solutions, here's one that could apply:
The comment section could be used for a photog's thoughts on the shot and what they were trying to accomplish. Perhaps many are already doing this, but it could also get tedious for the judges to have to read through it all. And it obviously shouldn't be used to try to pass off a bad shot. So, possibly have it limited to just those cases where a "rule" is being broken for a specific purpose, i.e. "I placed the horizon at the very top to maximize the foreground" "I processed this with a high key contrast in mind for..." "I took this with a crooked horizon to give the feeling of..." Perhaps this shouldn't be needed, but I threw it in based on the above comments. The photo would still have to pass on its own merits, but it would just be a quick reminder to the judge that there was considerable thought given to the shot.
Originally posted by Tamia <SNIP>
I think the PEG is a good idea for a lot of reasons, most of which have been touched upon by others. For me, I see it as another way to hone my skill so I can shoot pictures which will appeal to a critical audience of more experienced photographers. I don't see it as the only valuation of my work, because when you get right down to it, the photos I shoot for my own pleasure are just that, for me. If I'm happy with them, that's great. If others like what I'm trying to portray and document, I'm very happy, but I also don't expect that my photos will appeal to everyone, or even to any but a minority.
I've submitted quite a few photos and have had only one accepted, which I'm certain doesn't appeal to some. With some shots which have been rejected, I really couldn't see the reasons, and though puzzled, I accepted the decisions without regret because I tried. But I've learned, too. Today I submitted a shot which I like quite a lot, and it was rejected. However, the judge(s) who commented had very useful advice and this encouraged me. It also helped me to look at the photo in a new way, even though I'd thought I had thoroughly evaluated it before submission. The newish feature whereby judges can offer comments is a terrific way to offer feedback. Thanks to you judges who have given me this advice, and thanks to Adam for adding this feature.
Very good comments, and I too think the feedback section here and the Critique section can be really great for improving skills. And yes, in the end, it really doesn't matter if anybody likes my photography but me. But,
if comments are to be given, and
if resubmissions are to be allowed,
then the photographer should have some idea that,
if they take the time and trouble to reprocess the shot with the suggested improvements,
then the shot is going to be accepted. Otherwise, as Falk pointed out, an endless discussion over technique and preferences can go on and just lead to frustration, which is what caused me to post my earlier "vent."