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The EXCLUSIVE GALLERY ("PEG") at PentaxForums
Posted By: Adam, 08-05-2010, 06:05 AM

Hello everyone,

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I am very happy to announce that an idea we've had in the back of our minds for a good while has finally been brought to life! Today we're officially unveiling the PentaxForums Exclusive Gallery, which is conceptually similar to Pentax's PPG. At first, we wanted this gallery to also appear fancy and have cool effects, but we found that other solutions wouldn't offer the level of integration that this one did. So, let's jump right in to what we're looking at here.

Our Exclusive Gallery will become a collection of only the best photos taken by our users. Only PentaxForums.com users will be able to submit to this gallery. We will also be imposing certain quality standards to make sure the photos are at their very best.

To submit a photo to the gallery, simply click the 'upload' link in the upper gallery toolbar, or click here. The submission form is the same as that in our other gallery categories, so you should already be familiar with the controls. The following will be required of each photo:
  • JPEG format and compression at 90%-100% (9-12).
  • A resolution of at least 1024x700 (WxH or HxW) pixels; preferably around 1500 or 2000px on one edge
  • Full EXIF left intact in the file, if digital
  • Manual addition of EXIF metadata, if film
  • A photo description and complete camera/lens fields
  • If you choose to place copyright text in your photo, please do so in the lower-right or lower-left corner only
  • No added frames, borders, or drawings
  • Taken with a Pentax camera (no exceptions)
  • Limit 2 submissions per user day (to be fair to our judges)
If your photo conforms to these regulations, it will then be evaluated by the site staff. If the photo is good enough, it'll be approved into the gallery; if not, we'll simply move it to a regular category. You will be able to submit as many photos as you'd like until 10 have been approved in the gallery. This limit is currently going to be in place so that every photographer gets about equal exposure, but may increase in the future.

Why this is going to be better than the PPG:
  • Not a slow flash-based gallery
  • Large resolutions will be available for your viewing pleasure
  • Comments can be made
  • More great photos will be posted!
  • Feedback on your photo will be e-mailed to you once a decision has been made
  • The approval decision will be made within 1 week at most (apply to be a judge)
  • Status tracking at https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/galleryapprove.php?do=status and updates on status via e-mail
  • It's integrated with your favorite photo forum
And, best of all:
  • If 5 or your photos get approved into the gallery, you will be invited to become an Exclusive Gallery judge
So, why wait? Upload your best now!

A note to newbies: the gallery is accessible through the 'photos' button in the navbar. Simply click it and then select 'User Photo Gallery' from the menu.

Enjoy, guys! I'm very excited to be bringing you this.

Photos accepted into the gallery will also be tagged as "exclusive" in gallery searches and listings, and within the exclusive category, supersized thumbnails will be shown!

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05-05-2013, 07:12 PM   #466
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QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
Owning a camera doesn't automatically make you a National Geographic photographer.
I'll also add that my photographic forté lies in aviation photography, and I've taken some photos that are better than some of the aviation photos printed in National Geographic. I would be hesitant to proclaim National Geographic as the standard against which any and all photos are to be measured.

05-06-2013, 03:36 AM - 1 Like   #467
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QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
Owning a camera doesn't automatically make you a National Geographic photographer.
Maybe true, but dane.dawg's image above, to my mind, makes the cut.
When this sort of comment is applied generically to an excellent submission it indicates a lack of genuine commitment to the work of judging and it is, I think, insulting.
05-06-2013, 05:03 AM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anton Magus Quote
Maybe true, but dane.dawg's image above, to my mind, makes the cut.
When this sort of comment is applied generically to an excellent submission it indicates a lack of genuine commitment to the work of judging and it is, I think, insulting.
I agree.
05-06-2013, 12:50 PM   #469
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I just got one accepted and I honestly don't know why after reading the comments. It was a close-up of an owl with the crowd reflected in its eye. Most of the judges hated the reflection (one said I should black it out). Another said "I question what is exceptional about this photo." Another assured me he had lots of pictures that he took just like it and it was a common shot of photographers; another assured me it wasn't PEG material, and one of judges said it didn't meet the minimum size but he (kindly) didn't dock me for it - by the way it did meet the requirements and the judge should have known at least that. Another judge questioned the lens I used (evidently they don't see the EXIF). The one that fried me was the comment that the reflections were man made. That is like accusing me of cheating. I guess the bottom line is that even though this one made it in I sure didn't come away feeling any better about it than if it had been denied. Somedays don't you just wonder why we put ourselves through this stuff. Dane.dawg, that image should have made it in and I can think of no reason it didn't.

05-06-2013, 11:43 PM   #470
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QuoteOriginally posted by slowpez Quote
I just got one accepted and I honestly don't know why after reading the comments
@ slowpez
Sorry if the process was traumatic and left you feeling somewhat dissatisfied. I don't believe it should be anything other than a pleasant experience, whether the image is accepted or not. All ratings and comments should be fair, even if they are not exactly what you want to hear. They should agree with one another as well. At a minimum you should learn from the comments what the judges thought was wrong with your submission and the reasons why it got the rating score it did. Even if you do not personally agree with those comments or ratings. Criticism of the submitted photograph, even if harsh, is permissible if it is fair. Criticism of the photographer is, for me, always totally unacceptable.

I remember your owl picture - it was excellent although the focus on one side was a little softer than on the other. That did not detract from the overall image as the real subject was not the entire owl, but its eye.
Overall images should be judged purely on the categories of technique, composition and the originality/creativity = artistic appeal.

You have outlined some of the comments from what appears to be six judges. If that is what their comments said, then I fully understand your feelings.
Obviously a majority of the judges thought your image rated highly enough for it to be accepted. That's great because it was a very good image and you are to be congratulated for taking and submitting it. Well done!

What I would really like to know is:-
> How many judges in total rated your owl photograph?
> What the average scores were by category?
> What the lowest and highest scores were by category?
> Were the comments, in your opinion, generally in line with the scores given?
> How many judge's comments & ratings seemed (to you) fair, reasonable and helpful?
> How many judges gave their name, and do you prefer this or not?

I know its asking you to take some time to answer these questions, but this information may just help to put into perspective some of the judging problems.
Thanks.
05-06-2013, 11:45 PM   #471
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QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
Well know I am not offended at all by this judge, He or She just uses the same statement for all my photos
Seriously ? Youi receive the same kind of comment twice ?

QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
Great images are made not just happenchance as in e.g. point and shoot as encouraged to sell film. Study, practice and apply the rules until they become second nature i.e. consider the rule of thirds, leading lines, viewpoint, symmetry, background and foreground, framing, depth of field, bokeh, etc.
Great, another academic freak..

Regards,
Arno
05-07-2013, 02:59 AM   #472
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anton Magus Quote
What I would really like to know is:-
> How many judges in total rated your owl photograph?
> What the average scores were by category?
> What the lowest and highest scores were by category?
> Were the comments, in your opinion, generally in line with the scores given?
> How many judge's comments & ratings seemed (to you) fair, reasonable and helpful?
> How many judges gave their name, and do you prefer this or not?

Susan won't know how many judges rated (she can count comments, but wont know how many judges rated the pic but left no comments) and she also won't know the lowest and highest scores as they aren't revealed when you receive your judgment.

My own opinion is that it's a good close up of an owl, enhanced by the reflection showing life in captivity. Although I do wonder why the darker feathers are purple?
05-07-2013, 07:06 AM   #473
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anton Magus Quote
@ slowpez
Sorry if the process was traumatic and left you feeling somewhat dissatisfied. I don't believe it should be anything other than a pleasant experience, whether the image is accepted or not. All ratings and comments should be fair, even if they are not exactly what you want to hear. They should agree with one another as well. At a minimum you should learn from the comments what the judges thought was wrong with your submission and the reasons why it got the rating score it did. Even if you do not personally agree with those comments or ratings. Criticism of the submitted photograph, even if harsh, is permissible if it is fair. Criticism of the photographer is, for me, always totally unacceptable.

I remember your owl picture - it was excellent although the focus on one side was a little softer than on the other. That did not detract from the overall image as the real subject was not the entire owl, but its eye.
Overall images should be judged purely on the categories of technique, composition and the originality/creativity = artistic appeal.

You have outlined some of the comments from what appears to be six judges. If that is what their comments said, then I fully understand your feelings.
Obviously a majority of the judges thought your image rated highly enough for it to be accepted. That's great because it was a very good image and you are to be congratulated for taking and submitting it. Well done!

What I would really like to know is:

> How many judges in total rated your owl photograph? Looks to have been about 25 reviews and if there were more they didn't comment

> What the average scores were by category?

> What the lowest and highest scores were by category?

Technique Score : 4.63 (Min: 1 Max: 6 Required: 4.51)
Composition Score : 4.65 (Min: 1 Max: 6 Required: 4.51)
Creativity Score : 3.01 (Min: 1 Max: 4 Required: 2.6)


> Were the comments, in your opinion, generally in line with the scores given?

Since 10 people didn't like the reflection and 3 more didn't like the photo that says that at least 13 out of the 25 said no to adding it to the PEG. In answer to your question, I would say the comments were not in line with the comments given but only a couple of judges told me the scores they gave.

> How many judge's comments & ratings seemed (to you) fair, reasonable and helpful?

5 of the judges took the time to give me an in-depth review. Not all five were favorable but they all made some excellent points that I felt will help me in the long run.

> How many judges gave their name, and do you prefer this or not? 3 gave their name. I have mixed feelings about this because a judge should be able to remain anonymous if he/she so desires but, if the judge makes rude, sarcastic or hurtful remarks, there should be some way to voice a complaint. There is no need for that kind of feedback on this or any other forum.

I know its asking you to take some time to answer these questions, but this information may just help to put into perspective some of the judging problems.
Thanks.
First let me say, whether I agree with them or not, I have learned a lot from many of the judges on the PEG. It takes a lot of time and knowledge to critique in an honest helpful manner.
Secondly, there seems to be a lack of consistency is the basics of a review. I was told the image was over-exposed and under-exposed by different reviewers. Which was it?
Lastly, reviewers should know at least the basic rules of submission (ie: size requirements) for each entry. They should not have to guess what lens was used; the EXIF is there and they should be able to see that information.

Submission to the PEG is a learning process; at least that is the way it was set up. I would hope it could go back to being that way again. I enjoy seeing what others think of an image I thought had merit and I learn a lot by finding out its flaws. It only takes one reviewer making unpleasant and rude unkind remarks to ruin the entire process for all.


05-07-2013, 07:13 AM   #474
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QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
Well know I am not offended at all by this judge, He or She just uses the same statement for all my photos

Owning a camera doesn't automatically make you a National Geographic photographer.
Great images are made not just happenchance as in e.g. point and shoot as encouraged to sell film. Study, practice and apply the rules until they become second nature i.e. consider the rule of thirds, leading lines, viewpoint, symmetry, background and foreground, framing, depth of field, bokeh, etc.
All photos must stand out in terms of composition, and also be flawless technically in this category of Pentax Exclusive Gallery (PEG). They should exhibit originality and facility with a camera and post processing.
While the Image is a good capture it simply does not not qualify under the strict criteria for PEG. The identification should be expanded.
Try to get some feedback from the section on Photo Critique. Good luck with your endeavors.
I love that shot ... seriously ... what is wrong and why is not good enough material for PEG?
I can't understand ... I guess this reminds me why I have left the judging group ...

Last edited by mrNewt; 05-07-2013 at 08:12 AM.
05-07-2013, 08:27 AM   #475
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
I do wonder why the darker feathers are purple?
I have looked and looked at the dark feathers and I still can't see any purple. You weren't the only one to notice purple fringing but I swear I just don't see any. Maybe my monitor?
05-07-2013, 08:35 AM   #476
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QuoteOriginally posted by slowpez Quote
I have looked and looked at the dark feathers and I still can't see any purple. You weren't the only one to notice purple fringing but I swear I just don't see any. Maybe my monitor?
Hmm that is odd. I suppose it might be your monitor (or it might be mine ). If you get a chance maybe login to PentaxForums from someone else's PC and have a look at your owl there. Or if you have a smartphone or tablet try with those?

Edit: actually I've just looked on my phone and it's less purple there (but still quite blue). On the other hand phone screens aren't known for their colour fidelity and cannot be adjusted or calibrated, I would have more faith in my monitor.
05-07-2013, 09:50 AM   #477
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
Although I do wonder why the darker feathers are purple?
QuoteOriginally posted by slowpez Quote
I have looked and looked at the dark feathers and I still can't see any purple.
I have looked at the image on two screens which (normally) give a visually identical image, colour-wise.
On my Samsung screen I see no purple and the feathers on top of the owl's head are distinctly black/dark grey with white tips, but on my LG screen the same feathers are very marginally but noticeably blue shaded with white tips.

From the answers slowpez kindly gave to the list of questions I posed, I really wonder what is going on with the PEG.
Obviously the image was rated by 25 judges at least, and probably 30 or so.
13 commented that they didn't like the eye reflections or the entire image, so one presumes they gave low scores. Conversely 12 to 17+ must have given high scores for the entry to be accepted.
This indicates a wide disparity in the standard of judging.
Surely whether or not you happen to like the entry is immaterial. If it is technically good and the composition is good it should get the ratings it deserves, even if its a photograph of dog mess on a lawn. And maybe that scores well for originality too!

Then only 5 out of say 30 judges took the time to comment in depth.
I know comments take time, and often a long, detailed, comment is not required but surely if so many judges didn't like the image they owe it to the entrant to say why they didn't like it and what they found wrong with it?
Or am I being stupid here?

QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
I can't understand ... I guess this reminds me why I have left the judging group ...
Just a guess, but it seems to me that the judging group needs as many objective judges as it can get - specially after a thinning out process which is clearly desperately needed.
05-08-2013, 05:40 AM   #478
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I have sent an entry (knowing it will fail) just out of curiosity and see the comments.

I think the person that keeps on copy-pasting this message on (I guess) all the entries, should stop ... if you don't have any kind of critique for the actual work that is presented in front of your eyes you should not comment at all. Is silly ...

"Owning a camera doesn't automatically make you a National Geographic photographer.
Great images are made not just happenchance as in e.g. point and shoot Kodak Style to encourage the sale of film. Study, practice and apply the rules until they become second nature i.e. consider the rule of thirds, leading lines, viewpoint, symmetry, background and foreground, framing, depth of field,
bokeh, etc.
All photos must stand out in terms of composition, and also be flawless technically in this category of Pentax Exclusive Gallery (PEG). They should exhibit some originality and facility with a camera and post processing.
The image is a mess. It simply does not qualify under the strict criteria for PEG.
Try to get some feedback from the section on Photo Critique. Good luck with your endeavors.
"

Other than that, all the comments for my entry were sharing pretty much the same opinion (more or less) and I was expecting those comments (what I have sent was more of an "acquired taste") and I understand their decision.

But seriously, some admin, please get in touch with that specific judge ... what's the point of that message? Is like an answering machine ... nobody home .

Last edited by mrNewt; 05-08-2013 at 05:54 AM.
05-08-2013, 06:55 AM   #479
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
I have sent an entry (knowing it will fail) just out of curiosity and see the comments.
Tell us the subject and we'll make sure its accepted into the PEG
Seriously though, this may be a very worthwhile exercise. I wonder if Adam or one of the other admins gets time to read the PEG Judge's comments from time to time.
05-08-2013, 07:17 AM   #480
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anton Magus Quote
Tell us the subject and we'll make sure its accepted into the PEG
Seriously though, this may be a very worthwhile exercise. I wonder if Adam or one of the other admins gets time to read the PEG Judge's comments from time to time.
It already failed
The entry was called "The fallen" - story of a leaf on a grass.

I guess now is a good time to say that... the foreground grass was on purpose.
I wasn't interested in a sharp image of a leaf but rather of an emotion... for some will work, for others won't.

As a parentheses... as judging goes... maybe sometimes is a good idea to move away from telling the photographer what "you think" the picture should of looked like and judge it for what it is rather than what it should be.
Some things are done on purpose .

Last edited by mrNewt; 05-08-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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