Hello everyone,



I am very happy to announce that an idea we've had in the back of our minds for a good while has finally been brought to life! Today we're officially unveiling the PentaxForums Exclusive Gallery, which is conceptually similar to Pentax's PPG. At first, we wanted this gallery to also appear fancy and have cool effects, but we found that other solutions wouldn't offer the level of integration that this one did. So, let's jump right in to what we're looking at here.

Our Exclusive Gallery will become a collection of only the best photos taken by our users. Only PentaxForums.com users will be able to submit to this gallery. We will also be imposing certain quality standards to make sure the photos are at their very best.

To submit a photo to the gallery, simply click the 'upload' link in the upper gallery toolbar, or click here. The submission form is the same as that in our other gallery categories, so you should already be familiar with the controls. The following will be required of each photo:

• JPEG format and compression at 90%-100% (9-12).
• A resolution of at least 1024x700 (WxH or HxW) pixels; preferably around 1500 or 2000px on one edge
  
• Full EXIF left intact in the file, if digital
• Manual addition of EXIF metadata, if film
  
• A photo description and complete camera/lens fields
• If you choose to place copyright text in your photo, please do so in the lower-right or lower-left corner only
• No added frames, borders, or drawings
  
• Taken with a Pentax camera (no exceptions)
• Limit 2 submissions per user day (to be fair to our judges)
  

If your photo conforms to these regulations, it will then be evaluated by the site staff. If the photo is good enough, it'll be approved into the gallery; if not, we'll simply move it to a regular category. You will be able to submit as many photos as you'd like until 10 have been approved in the gallery. This limit is currently going to be in place so that every photographer gets about equal exposure, but may increase in the future.

Why this is going to be better than the PPG:

• Not a slow flash-based gallery
• Large resolutions will be available for your viewing pleasure
  
• Comments can be made
• More great photos will be posted!
• Feedback on your photo will be e-mailed to you once a decision has been made
• The approval decision will be made within 1 week at most (apply to be a judge)
  
• Status tracking at https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/galleryapprove.php?do=status and updates on status via e-mail
• It's integrated with your favorite photo forum
  

And, best of all:

• If 5 or your photos get approved into the gallery, you will be invited to become an Exclusive Gallery judge

So, why wait? Upload your best now!

A note to newbies: the gallery is accessible through the 'photos' button in the navbar. Simply click it and then select 'User Photo Gallery' from the menu.

Enjoy, guys! I'm very excited to be bringing you this.

Photos accepted into the gallery will also be tagged as "exclusive" in gallery searches and listings, and within the exclusive category, supersized thumbnails will be shown!

[Adam]

You add new features, some people complain, others are happy- that's just the way it is. It's pointless to try to make everyone happy, because they never will be. I'm going to be doing my best, but some of you guys really kill the fun sometimes. Also, nothing is perfect. If you can come up with a perfect evaluation system that's easy to implement and relatively easy to manage, you would be the first.

Falk, I don't understand why you see a problem with all the great stuff that's been being added lately:

"Reputation points"
-Suggested by a member. We all like seeing thankful comments about our posts.

"million'th post competition"
-$1500 of free stuff for you guys

"exclusive gallery"
-beautiful photos to look at

"sponsored subforums"
-we don't have any. And you don't know how many advertising requests I get via e-mail
-If you're talking about the B&H forum, it's there to help customers. If you don't want it to be there, simply choose to ignore it in your user cp

"dismissable message on top of pages"
-you were once a new user, too. These are really helpful for some people.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

[Adam]

I suppose there's no simple answer, if even one at all, so the exclusive gallery is what it is... although I can also suggest a way to arrange current user galleries according to star ratings (similar problems as above notwithstanding) and categorised into the genres already delineated... best of the user photo gallery by categories at the click of a mouse...

Sometime last week, I changed all the links so that they filter individual categories unless you're looking at the gallery index. Also, instead of filtering by top rating + dateline, the "highest ratings" link now filters by top rating + number of votes, giving you a much more accurate view of each category

[Class A]

As sophisticated as PPG may be in their submission review process, there are clear deficiencies - which are OK but certainly is no fail safe method.

I understand that anyone can become a judge for the PPG. That easily explains why we see mediocre images being accepted. Raise the bar to becoming a voter for the PPG and you've got its only problem sorted (I'm assuming that a sufficiently high number of judged vote on each image to eliminate individual bias).

N.B. I'm not sure that it is "OK" either that the PPG contains mediocre images. I see its primary function as advertising Pentax gear and that function isn't fulfilled with images that are less than breathtaking.

A member would have to purposely go into the gallery to pitch a vote - a select few who are keen to do this are then collectively the decision-makers, who themselves may have questionable acclaim in photographic judgement.

You point to a potential problem with the public voting approach, I agree.

This could be addressed by prominently displaying images to be voted on (e.g., instead of advertising).
If an image receives a lot of vetos early, it could go quickly. If it maintains a positive balance it could stay for a set period and then be either included if it has been very successful or dismissed if it hasn't.

[falconeye]

Falk, I don't understand why you see a problem with all the great stuff that's been being added lately

I really don't want to spoil the party. On the contrary.

It's difficult for me to properly express my concern. Maybe, it's easiest to describe by analogy:

Hang out with friends, talk nonsense and have the occasional serious debate. Even join forces to do something of value. Mock about others because one is belonging to such a cool gang. All of this is great fun.

Now, change that into organized leisure activity, you are driven by your parents to do sports, your performance is measured (competition), success is honoured etc.pp. All no fun anymore. Have been there, done it all. Not anymore.

Worse, now imagine somebody comes to the place where you and your friends used to hang out. And starts to organize everything. Would you stay?


This used to be the "Friendly Pentax Community". And now it slowly mutates into an organized something. It's creeping in, so most may not have noticed it yet. But when they do, it'll be too late.


Sometimes, less simply is more. I understand it must be frustrating for you as you try to provide added value for your users. Maybe, you are just overdoing it. Work less hard and all be good

[Adam]

I don't think have to worry, Falk- that's never going to be the case here.

Stuff like that only happens on the web when an organization with good intentions and motives is doubt out by a company with money-making initiatives. I've personally witnessed something like this recently: Jelsoft, Inc., the company responsible for the development of vBulletin 3 (our forum software), was bought out by Internet Brands (an Internet investment company), with promises of added resources and a goal of further improving the product.

Guess what happened? The IB executives set such terms for the Jelsoft team, that the Project Manager as well as two of the Senior Developers and several staff members said that they have had enough. They left vBulletin, on very legitimate grounds. And then what? vBulletin 4, which was supposed to be a long-awaited successor to the best forum software out there, ended up being a half-assed, pieced-together, last-minute remake of vBulletin 3 using most of the same source, but with a css-driven stying system rather than one using tables. Instead of being full of new features and tweaks, it was buggy, ugly, and really hurt the reputation of the company.

Point is: our site isn't ever going to end up in that boat as long as I'm around here For certain individuals, the new stuff being added might not be useful, but I think that on a larger scale, the usability of the site is improving, and members are becoming more and more satisfied with what they see. Something big is coming early next week- you'll like it, too!

[falconeye]

Stuff like that only happens on the web when [...]

Ok, I'm glad you are aware of the problem. Great!

Just if you discuss a new feature at all, then do it in a way we all can contribute. Somebody used the term to avoid: alienation

[Class A]

It's pointless to try to make everyone happy, because they never will be.

True, but by using more democracy, you could take make your life easier since you wouldn't be the target of criticism anymore.

The new sister forum "mirrorless"'s home page starts with the sentence "We are dedicated to two camera brands: Mirrorless.". Why do I tell you? Because I'm a nice guy.

I like to have fun like everyone else but I don't see the fun in the "exclusive gallery" as it is currently run. If it were my mission to give you a hard time or "really kill the fun sometimes", I wouldn't do such things or other things I've done in an attempt to provide value to the forum.

Too bad that you regard the attempts of some forum members to improve things as "kill the fun sometimes".

[Adam]

The thing is, that everyone can participate in everything here on the site. There are no postcount restrictions, and extremely generous file quotas- hell, there's not even any "pay us money for a private discussion forum" section.

Getting back on the topic of the exclusive gallery, as we digress:
a) All the moderators are now involved in the decisions
b) It would be nice to also have contributors here on the site, which could help with various things, i.e. something between a regular member and a moderator
c) Not everyone is a winner at everything!

[Adam]

True, but by using more democracy, you could take make your life easier since you wouldn't be the target of criticism anymore.

The new sister forum "mirrorless"'s home page starts with the sentence "We are dedicated to two camera brands: Mirrorless.". Why do I tell you? Because I'm a nice guy.

I like to have fun like everyone else but I don't see the fun in the "exclusive gallery" as it is currently run. If it were my mission to give you a hard time or "really kill the fun sometimes", I wouldn't do such things or other things I've done in an attempt to provide value to the forum.

Too bad that you regard the attempts of some forum members to improve things as "kill the fun sometimes".

The above reply was for Falk, yours hadn't come in yet.

Constructive criticism is always great, C.A., but a lot of the recent suggestions have been made in a very negative tone. People are jumping at conclusions and looking at the ready product rather than considering the time put into developing it, and the good faith effort that said development was. I'm down for collective efforts on everything, but you've got to make it sound like you're in on it.

[Ash]

I understand that anyone can become a judge for the PPG. That easily explains why we see mediocre images being accepted. Raise the bar to becoming a voter for the PPG and you've got its only problem sorted (I'm assuming that a sufficiently high number of judged vote on each image to eliminate individual bias).

N.B. I'm not sure that it is "OK" either that the PPG contains mediocre images. I see its primary function as advertising Pentax gear and that function isn't fulfilled with images that are less than breathtaking.

While it's true, one seasoned pro is better than 100 mediocre voters in deciding the best work, though on PPG the only way to be a voter is to have had an accepted submission yourself - also not an ideal criteria for voting good images in - perhaps if it took 5 or 10 images to get in to start voting, the standard may change... who knows?

You point to a potential problem with the public voting approach, I agree.

This could be addressed by prominently displaying images to be voted on (e.g., instead of advertising).
If an image receives a lot of vetos early, it could go quickly. If it maintains a positive balance it could stay for a set period and then be either included if it has been very successful or dismissed if it hasn't.

Yep, agree with that.

[Yaro]

I'm starting to like this site more and more. I''ve sent a few pics away for moderation, hopefully some make it through


Cool feature!

[Adam]

There sure have been a lot of submissions overnight (33) - we're working on processing them now. That puts the total somewhere around 300, I'd say.

[rustynail925]

Just some quick questions
how will you know if your image had been rejected
and how long is the process

[pacerr]

From another thread/Pacerr: "Having someone else 'categorize' your photos, as is happening with the "Exclusive Photo Gallery" submissions, is an interesting experience.

Text/comments associated with the photo seem to have an unintended influence on the outcome rather than having the photo suggest it's own place in that regard.

It would be interesting to run some sort of a blind test to see if/how textual comments affect other's perception of your intent."

As a case in point, I recently posted an image of wagon wheel hubs. I'd guess 90% of the viewers wouldn't even know what they were or associate them with "Automotive/Mechanical" stuff, expecially in the abstract context they were portrayed in. Yet the textual description seems to have driven the categorization of the image contrary to my intent.

Now, that's not necessarily bad - it's interesting to see how others define your images - but it IS a bias to be recognized as contrary to the original intent. Perhaps the submissions deserve a user defined catagory as a useful point of view.

H2

[Adam]

Just some quick questions
how will you know if your image had been rejected
and how long is the process

If you find you image to be in a regular category, it has been rejected. In the future, I fear that we will have to start deleting images rather than restoring them to the gallery, as the process is currently quite time-consuming.

Expect a 24h response time.

As a case in point, I recently posted an image of wagon wheel hubs. I'd guess 90% of the viewers wouldn't even know what they were or associate them with "Automotive/Mechanical" stuff, expecially in the abstract context they were portrayed in. Yet the textual description seems to have driven the categorization of the image contrary to my intent.

Now, that's not necessarily bad - it's interesting to see how others define your images - but it IS a bias to be recognized as contrary to the original intent. Perhaps the submissions deserve a user defined catagory as a useful point of view.

H2

You're welcome to change the category on your own if you'd like. Some photos tend to find into more than one category.