image comparison using 'neat image' noise reduction programme.

**distorted_vision** · 03:58 PM

hey guys. i found this noise reduction software that Peter Zack(thanks mate) mentioned in a previous thread and im pretty impressed by it.. heres an example of what results you can get.. does anyone else use this software and if so... how do you find it and do you use it a lot? as i am fairly new to digital and i am not very confident at photoshop(my speciality is auto-cad), i found this software extremely easy to use and the results are evident...
here the link to those who are interested, Neat Image - best noise reduction for digital cameras and scanners

ORIGINAL..

EDITED WITH NEAT IMAGE..

and another example..

ORIGINAL...

EDITED WITH NEAT IMAGE...

G M Fude · 12-25-2007, 04:19 PM

Much the same as Neat Image, I have Noise Ninja, as a plug-in for PhotoShop Elements 5. I've used it for more than a year and it does as advertised. There are compromises: noise reduction can lead to some loss of detail and softening of the image e.g. the texture of the feathers in your gull shot, Kev.

Quite likely I should spend some more time tweaking its settings; or maybe there are simply some photos that it is best not suited to. But these applications sure do get rid of noise!

**distorted_vision** · 12-25-2007, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by G M Fude

Much the same as Neat Image, I have Noise Ninja, as a plug-in for PhotoShop Elements 5. I've used it for more than a year and it does as advertised. There are compromises: noise reduction can lead to some loss of detail and softening of the image e.g. the texture of the feathers in your gull shot, Kev.

Quite likely I should spend some more time tweaking its settings; or maybe there are simply some photos that it is best not suited to. But these applications sure do get rid of noise!

very true mate.. i did notice the lack of sharpness and gain of softness. the feathers stuck out immediately for me aswell. but i think it doesnt look too bad. you are 110% correct in mentioning that it would be suited for certain images and perhaps not for others.. a bit of trial and error.. i think for sunsets etc.. it would work a treat? infact i will try now.

**distorted_vision** · 12-25-2007, 04:41 PM

before....

after....

G M Fude · 12-25-2007, 04:45 PM

It works really well for the B&W shot you posted (is that Beaumaris?). The noise in the sky and the water was quite ugly, but it saves the shot and makes it into a winner.

I haven't tried Noise Ninja with my K10D yet, have only used it with my [word removed] S80 point-and-shoot, which I'll be taking with me to Hong Kong tomorrow -- it doesn't handle low light situations well, as is the way of P&S, and at 400 ISO the noise is horrendous compared with my Pentax.

EDIT: Maybe it's about degrees of noise, too, Kev. No noticeable softening of the sunset, but the noise was really only visible in the sky near the horizon (on my old Dell LCD monitor).

**distorted_vision** · 12-25-2007, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by G M Fude

It works really well for the B&W shot you posted (is that Beaumaris?). The noise in the sky and the water was quite ugly, but it saves the shot and makes it into a winner.

I haven't tried Noise Ninja with my K10D yet, have only used it with my [word removed] S80 point-and-shoot, which I'll be taking with me to Hong Kong tomorrow -- it doesn't handle low light situations well, as is the way of P&S, and at 400 ISO the noise is horrendous compared with my Pentax.

EDIT: Maybe it's about degrees of noise, too, Kev. No noticeable softening of the sunset, but the noise was really only visible in the sky near the horizon (on my old Dell LCD monitor).

1stly, yes correct it was at beauy.. it appears you may live near me

have fun in hong kong mate!!! im expecting HEAPS of pictures alrite!!

yeh, the sunset noise was just focused around the horizon line to the cloud formations, and it seems to have eliminated that...

i appreciate the feedback and advice, thanks alot mate and hope hong kOng is awesome as im sure it will be!!! ps- dont forget the camera(s) lol

kev

CJSpangler · 12-25-2007, 05:18 PM

seems to do the trick - I think it really does wonders in the sky and backgrounds as you have shown and from the examples on the website. I may consider it down the road.

PaulAndAPentax · 12-25-2007, 05:32 PM

I have Neat Image and I use it a lot. It works great with the K10D...when I do NR on bird shots, in Step 3 (Noise Filter Settings) i always drop the "Chrominance Channels" from the default 100% to about 85%. The "Luminance Channels" is default at 60% already. This should save most of the feather detail...

These were done through Neat Image in that manner and slightly sharpened after neat image processing. There is no loss of feather detail:

**distorted_vision** · 12-26-2007, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by PaulAndAPentax

I have Neat Image and I use it a lot. It works great with the K10D...when I do NR on bird shots, in Step 3 (Noise Filter Settings) i always drop the "Chrominance Channels" from the default 100% to about 85%. The "Luminance Channels" is default at 60% already. This should save most of the feather detail...

These were done through Neat Image in that manner and slightly sharpened after neat image processing. There is no loss of feather detail:

awesome advice.. thank you mate...

i shall have a go...

stewart_photo · 12-26-2007, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by distorted_vision

(snip) does anyone else use this software and if so... how do you find it and do you use it a lot? (snip)

The relatively short overcast days and long nights during this time of year in Northern Europe virtually require higher ISO speeds. That means software to deal with image noise is almost a necessity. I've tried both Neat Image and Noise Ninja. The latter certainly wasn't bad, but Neat Image consistently came out slightly ahead in terms of effectiveness at reducing noise with the least impact on image quality. Neat Image is now used almost daily.

stewart

**distorted_vision** · 12-26-2007, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

The relatively short overcast days and long nights during this time of year in Northern Europe virtually require higher ISO speeds. That means software to deal with image noise is almost a necessity. I've tried both Neat Image and Noise Ninja. The latter certainly wasn't bad, but Neat Image consistently came out slightly ahead in terms of effectiveness at reducing noise with the least impact on image quality. Neat Image is now used almost daily.

stewart

very interesting mate.. thanks for the insight... so far i am very very impressed with NEAT IMAGE. it seems to be very effective...

G M Fude · 12-26-2007, 04:11 AM

Ha ha! I agonised for weeks over which one of the two to buy, and the guys at the [horrible other camera brand] forum persuaded me to go with Noise Ninja.

Noise Ninja is pretty good, but I've seen some excellent results with Neat Image; I've since wondered whether it might actually be the better software.

Originally posted by distorted_vision

1stly, yes correct it was at beauy.. it appears you may live near me

have fun in hong kong mate!!! im expecting HEAPS of pictures alrite!!

Well, I live closer to you than a large number of people on this forum, Kev, but I'm not near the coastal suburbs; I just know the bayside, is all. (plus it was a lucky guess)

Nope, won't be posting HK photos on this forum. I'm taking the [unmentionable camera brand] P&S. I just couldn't be bothered lugging the DSLR there, this'll be my fifth Hong Kong holiday around this time of the year and it's not really a photography excursion (there, that's my level of commitment!). If you want to see some happy-snaps from a previous trip you could go here, but be warned they are just tourist shots, don't expect any artwork, and they were taken with a [Gasp! Not a Pentax!?] P&S.

LED · 12-26-2007, 04:25 AM

You can get good results with both of them. I personally use Neat, all you need is to practice on it. For better results I recommend using the advanced mode.

SWEngineer · 12-26-2007, 11:24 AM

Personally, I greatly dislike the loss of detail from using NI et. al. That said, here's a simple improvement not yet mentioned to get a better end result:

Duplicate image
Do the noise reduction on the new layer
Add a layer mask filled with black (hiding all the noise reduction)
Paint with white on the mask to selectively reveal the noise reduced image.
use a low opacity setting to 'build up' the amount of noise reduction and maintain a smooth transition with the rest of the image.
[optional] To make the image more uniformly 'grainy', create an 'added noise' layer. Mask with an inverted copy of the noise reduction layer mask & lower opacity to taste.

Alternatively, start with a white layer mask on the noise reduced image and paint black on the mask to reveal the missing texture / details.

Have fun .

-Mark

**xs400** · 12-26-2007, 02:22 PM

Another good noise reduction software is Picture Cooler, see Noise reduction--focus magic--deconvolution It is a shareware program that works very well. I have used it and I like it (plus it is inexpensive for the full version - and since I am cheap, that made me like it even more.

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12-25-2007, 04:45 PM	#5
G M Fude Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 439	It works really well for the B&W shot you posted (is that Beaumaris?). The noise in the sky and the water was quite ugly, but it saves the shot and makes it into a winner. I haven't tried Noise Ninja with my K10D yet, have only used it with my [word removed] S80 point-and-shoot, which I'll be taking with me to Hong Kong tomorrow -- it doesn't handle low light situations well, as is the way of P&S, and at 400 ISO the noise is horrendous compared with my Pentax. EDIT: Maybe it's about degrees of noise, too, Kev. No noticeable softening of the sunset, but the noise was really only visible in the sky near the horizon (on my old Dell LCD monitor). Last edited by G M Fude; 12-25-2007 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Added a bit about Kev's colour photos

12-25-2007, 05:32 PM	#8
PaulAndAPentax Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 390	I have Neat Image and I use it a lot. It works great with the K10D...when I do NR on bird shots, in Step 3 (Noise Filter Settings) i always drop the "Chrominance Channels" from the default 100% to about 85%. The "Luminance Channels" is default at 60% already. This should save most of the feather detail... These were done through Neat Image in that manner and slightly sharpened after neat image processing. There is no loss of feather detail: Last edited by PaulAndAPentax; 12-25-2007 at 05:40 PM.

12-26-2007, 11:24 AM	#14
SWEngineer Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Albuquerque, NM Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 308	Personally, I greatly dislike the loss of detail from using NI et. al. That said, here's a simple improvement not yet mentioned to get a better end result: Duplicate image Do the noise reduction on the new layer Add a layer mask filled with black (hiding all the noise reduction) Paint with white on the mask to selectively reveal the noise reduced image. use a low opacity setting to 'build up' the amount of noise reduction and maintain a smooth transition with the rest of the image. [optional] To make the image more uniformly 'grainy', create an 'added noise' layer. Mask with an inverted copy of the noise reduction layer mask & lower opacity to taste. Alternatively, start with a white layer mask on the noise reduced image and paint black on the mask to reveal the missing texture / details. Have fun . -Mark

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12-25-2007, 04:19 PM	#2
G M Fude Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 439	Much the same as Neat Image, I have Noise Ninja, as a plug-in for PhotoShop Elements 5. I've used it for more than a year and it does as advertised. There are compromises: noise reduction can lead to some loss of detail and softening of the image e.g. the texture of the feathers in your gull shot, Kev. Quite likely I should spend some more time tweaking its settings; or maybe there are simply some photos that it is best not suited to. But these applications sure do get rid of noise!

12-25-2007, 04:36 PM	#3
distorted_vision Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Moving around Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by G M Fude Much the same as Neat Image, I have Noise Ninja, as a plug-in for PhotoShop Elements 5. I've used it for more than a year and it does as advertised. There are compromises: noise reduction can lead to some loss of detail and softening of the image e.g. the texture of the feathers in your gull shot, Kev. Quite likely I should spend some more time tweaking its settings; or maybe there are simply some photos that it is best not suited to. But these applications sure do get rid of noise! very true mate.. i did notice the lack of sharpness and gain of softness. the feathers stuck out immediately for me aswell. but i think it doesnt look too bad. you are 110% correct in mentioning that it would be suited for certain images and perhaps not for others.. a bit of trial and error.. i think for sunsets etc.. it would work a treat? infact i will try now.

12-25-2007, 04:41 PM	#4
distorted_vision Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Moving around Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308 Original Poster	before.... after....

12-25-2007, 04:53 PM	#6
distorted_vision Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Moving around Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by G M Fude It works really well for the B&W shot you posted (is that Beaumaris?). The noise in the sky and the water was quite ugly, but it saves the shot and makes it into a winner. I haven't tried Noise Ninja with my K10D yet, have only used it with my [word removed] S80 point-and-shoot, which I'll be taking with me to Hong Kong tomorrow -- it doesn't handle low light situations well, as is the way of P&S, and at 400 ISO the noise is horrendous compared with my Pentax. EDIT: Maybe it's about degrees of noise, too, Kev. No noticeable softening of the sunset, but the noise was really only visible in the sky near the horizon (on my old Dell LCD monitor). 1stly, yes correct it was at beauy.. it appears you may live near me have fun in hong kong mate!!! im expecting HEAPS of pictures alrite!! yeh, the sunset noise was just focused around the horizon line to the cloud formations, and it seems to have eliminated that... i appreciate the feedback and advice, thanks alot mate and hope hong kOng is awesome as im sure it will be!!! ps- dont forget the camera(s) lol kev

12-25-2007, 05:18 PM	#7
CJSpangler Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Jersey, US Posts: 154	seems to do the trick - I think it really does wonders in the sky and backgrounds as you have shown and from the examples on the website. I may consider it down the road.

12-26-2007, 12:05 AM	#9
distorted_vision Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Moving around Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by PaulAndAPentax I have Neat Image and I use it a lot. It works great with the K10D...when I do NR on bird shots, in Step 3 (Noise Filter Settings) i always drop the "Chrominance Channels" from the default 100% to about 85%. The "Luminance Channels" is default at 60% already. This should save most of the feather detail... These were done through Neat Image in that manner and slightly sharpened after neat image processing. There is no loss of feather detail: awesome advice.. thank you mate... i shall have a go...

12-26-2007, 01:11 AM	#10
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by distorted_vision (snip) does anyone else use this software and if so... how do you find it and do you use it a lot? (snip) The relatively short overcast days and long nights during this time of year in Northern Europe virtually require higher ISO speeds. That means software to deal with image noise is almost a necessity. I've tried both Neat Image and Noise Ninja. The latter certainly wasn't bad, but Neat Image consistently came out slightly ahead in terms of effectiveness at reducing noise with the least impact on image quality. Neat Image is now used almost daily. stewart

12-26-2007, 02:35 AM	#11
distorted_vision Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Moving around Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by stewart_photo The relatively short overcast days and long nights during this time of year in Northern Europe virtually require higher ISO speeds. That means software to deal with image noise is almost a necessity. I've tried both Neat Image and Noise Ninja. The latter certainly wasn't bad, but Neat Image consistently came out slightly ahead in terms of effectiveness at reducing noise with the least impact on image quality. Neat Image is now used almost daily. stewart very interesting mate.. thanks for the insight... so far i am very very impressed with NEAT IMAGE. it seems to be very effective...

12-26-2007, 04:11 AM	#12
G M Fude Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 439	Ha ha! I agonised for weeks over which one of the two to buy, and the guys at the [horrible other camera brand] forum persuaded me to go with Noise Ninja. Noise Ninja is pretty good, but I've seen some excellent results with Neat Image; I've since wondered whether it might actually be the better software. Originally posted by distorted_vision 1stly, yes correct it was at beauy.. it appears you may live near me have fun in hong kong mate!!! im expecting HEAPS of pictures alrite!! Well, I live closer to you than a large number of people on this forum, Kev, but I'm not near the coastal suburbs; I just know the bayside, is all. (plus it was a lucky guess) Nope, won't be posting HK photos on this forum. I'm taking the [unmentionable camera brand] P&S. I just couldn't be bothered lugging the DSLR there, this'll be my fifth Hong Kong holiday around this time of the year and it's not really a photography excursion (there, that's my level of commitment!). If you want to see some happy-snaps from a previous trip you could go here, but be warned they are just tourist shots, don't expect any artwork, and they were taken with a [Gasp! Not a Pentax!?] P&S.

12-26-2007, 04:25 AM	#13
LED Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bucharest, Romania Photos: Gallery Posts: 192	You can get good results with both of them. I personally use Neat, all you need is to practice on it. For better results I recommend using the advanced mode.

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12-26-2007, 02:22 PM	#15
xs400 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,929	Another good noise reduction software is Picture Cooler, see Noise reduction--focus magic--deconvolution It is a shareware program that works very well. I have used it and I like it (plus it is inexpensive for the full version - and since I am cheap, that made me like it even more.