Again, thanks to everybody that participated in the December Side Challenge. It did better than I thought it would, and hopefully we can get more and more participation in the coming months. For those of you that didn't see it, or just didn't participate before, basically this thread is for posting pictures that meet the current month's theme, then hopefully receiving comments from others participating and we can all help each other out. In order for this to work the best, the more comments you can leave the better, so please comment as much as you can.

To keep with the learning that I received from the B&W challenge, lets move things to duotones. Give us some good examples, and again explain to us how you did your conversion, so we can learn some new ways to get those nice duotone looks. As the title suggests, since we already did B&W, you shouldn't post B&W pictures, but any other duotone will work.

Have fun, and post as often as you can, the more you participate the more you will learn.

[travis_cooper]

Sorry, one more thing. In order to comment on your pictures, it is usually easier to be able to go to where you have posted the picture, hopefully the user gallery (but you can post it where ever you'd like), and leave the comment there, rather than in this thread. That just makes it easier to find the comments for one picture, because they are all in one place and you don't have to sift through all the posts to find the comments for your picture. So please don't post your pictures as attachments.

Also, we have found that making a link that also shows the image is a nice way for us to be able to see the picture, and also to get to where it has been posted quickly. In order to do this you can use this template {URL="where_the_users_will_go_if_they_click"}{IMG}url_of_the_image_to_show{/IMG}{/URL}
The where_the_users_will_go_if_they_click part just replace with the url to go to if I click on the image. The url_of_the_image_to_show part just replace with the location of the image, this will be what we see in your post. You will also need to change the { to [ and the } to ] If you need the urls and have posted your picture in the user gallery here, then you can go to the picture you posted and they have the urls for you underneath your picture. I have found the easiest way is to copy the url where we will go, then click on the insert link button and paste the url, then copy the url of the actual picture, then click on the image button and paste the url and you're done.

Happy posting, if you can't get it to work, let me know and hopefully I can clarify things better for you.

[Mike Cash]

I'm not clear on the difference between a duotone and a split-tone. Does this photo qualify as a duotone?

[travis_cooper]

I'm not clear on the difference between a duotone and a split-tone. Does this photo qualify as a duotone?

Maybe a tritone could also be consiered a split-tone, I'm not sure. Basically anything that is just two tones. But that picture looks like it is B&W, maybe it is just my un-calibrated monitor here at work. Yes to me it is duotone, but we want to try and get non-B&W shots for this one.

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Last edited by travis_cooper; 01-02-2008 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Spelling

[Mike Cash]

Could you point me toward an image that is representative of what you're looking for, please? I'm afraid I still don't quite get it.

[mtnbearhug]

Could you point me toward an image that is representative of what you're looking for, please? I'm afraid I still don't quite get it.

An example would be good.. I am a bit confused on what is needed as well..

[SWEngineer]

Maybe a tritone could also be consiered a split-tone, I'm not sure. Basically anything that is just two tones. But that picture looks like it is B&W, maybe it is just my un-calibrated monitor here at work. Yes to me it is duotone, but we want to try and get non-B&W shots for this one.

Hi Travis. I hate to admit I didn't pay much attention to the Dec. side challenge. It would have been fun. As for duotones, while not an expert, I do have a few thoughts I hope you find useful.

First, here's a nice link that discusses (one way) how to do duotone conversions in PhotoShop: Duotone Tutorial

A "true" duotone is simply an image printed on paper using two different inks instead of just one. Typically black is still one of the inks, but it doesn't have to be. Two grayscale versions of the image (a separation) define the density (amount) of each ink needed to create the final print. The tutorial link above essentially uses the PS tool to create an actual duotone separation. It then uses the "preview" image as the digital output (for web display, inkjet, etc).

So how do you define a digital duotone? Take a B&W image and tint it with a single hue and you get a digital duotone indistinguishable from a "true" duotone preview. (There must be a hundred ways to tint a B&W image using PS). Black makes up one ink with the other ink color not well defined. Both density maps also remain fully undefined.

Mike's example image very closely mimics a duotone. Crank up the saturation on it (~ 75%) and you will find that it "uses" a blue dark ink and a warm (yellowish tan?) light ink. If you think it more resembles a tritone, remember that some of the image will have a 'balanced' mix of the two inks [e.g. cyan + yellow = green].

So for the side challenge, is a tinted B&W enough? Or do you want a "true" duotone (2 grayscale separations with ink colors clearly defined + "preview")? You can do the latter even in programs that do not formally support duotone or other separations (e.g. CYMK), but you have to be very clever. (Or like I did, learn from a clever someone else -- Richard Lynch via his book "Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements 2" in my case). Either way, it requires a B&W starting image. Good B&W conversion skill will go far regardless of the route to a digital duotone.

So, please clarify what you are looking for in this challenge & I promise to participate this round.

Regards,

-Mark

[m8o]

thanx for the definition and detail.

I keep thinking this one might be a a duotone naturally.... (neither of the colors are black) Leaving to go out on Safari early in the am w/an overcast sky and mist muting the colors.



I like it better above then as a sepia conversion, which is ok, I just like the above better. I guess then by what I read, crank the contrast in the conversion below, and it's more "duotone'ish"?

[SWEngineer]

thanx for the definition and detail.
I keep thinking this one might be a a duotone naturally.... (neither of the colors are black) Leaving to go out on Safari early in the am w/an overcast sky and mist muting the colors.

I see greens & yellows and some red / magenta in this. I don't think you could get a print like it using just two ink colors. (So not a duotone.) But I could be wrong.

... I guess then by what I read, crank the contrast in the conversion below, and it's more "duotone'ish"?

No, I think the sepia image "as is" equals a duotone (or possibly a monotone using a dark brown ink as it seems to have nothing close to black in it). Increase the contrast and you will simply have a high(er) contrast image (duotone or monotone). I guess if you call it monotone now, then increasing the contrast enough would turn it into a duotone (assuming you push the darkest tones to black - a color you could never get from dark brown ink alone).

Because a duotone really refers to a printed image, it's quite vague (in my opinion) what defines a digital duotone unless you go the formal separation route with specific ink colors identified together with their density maps. That probably isn't the best definition to use in this "contest", however, as non photoshop participants will be severely handicapped.

-Mark

[Mike Cash]

I googled around a bit, and everything seems to start with a b/w image, so I couldn't understand how I was supposed to get to a duotone without one. Also, it does seem to be primarily geared toward print output, whether working with the limitations of the print medium/equipment, or just trying to save money on ink. So long as it is on-screen, I'm having trouble understanding the difference between a split-tone (such as I linked to, which is a somewhat undersaturated blue/orange two tone conversion) and a duotone.

[distorted_vision]

sounds all a bit silly and confusing for me.. hah!!
photography isnt rocket science.. i cant stand it when people try to make it more complicated than it actually is. end of the day.. u look at something.. you take a shot.. u either feel the shot or you dont, and that will be evident throught the photograph.. plain and simple.. monotone, duotone or even DeeVee tone. this thread is a bitt odd in my oppinion..

[travis_cooper]

The classic example, as in the picture posted above, is sepia. I am only saying not to use B&W because we already did a B&W challenge.

[SWEngineer]

The classic example, as in the picture posted above, is sepia. I am only saying not to use B&W because we already did a B&W challenge.

But half or more of the B&W challenge shots were actually tinted (effectively duotones). In fact the main B&W conversion method touted in that thread only has one style of B&W conversion - extract "lightness" from Lab channels. The rest is just tinting & contrast enhancement. So I argue we have also already done duotones.

Mike's "split tone" thing is good enough in my opinion as a duotone mimic. Duotones really are only for printed output. Anything presented in a jpg is just a mimic to one degree or another.

How about duotones - black "ink" excluded? That will stop the pure B&W entries.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or set the rules, but no one seems to know what to post. Maybe I'll start w/ a "real" duotone in a day or two.

-Mark

[Mike Cash]

Just by way of illustration:

A pure honest-to-goodness gray tones only b/w picture:



It has no toning or tinting applied to it. Below is a composite image I made showing the gamma sliders at both extremes of the scale. As you can see, the highlights (non-black portions of the left side) contain only gray and the shadows (non-white portions of the right side) contain only gray:



Now, here is the image which may look black and white, but which is actually a blue and orange split-tone:



And here are the same gamma extremes which reveal the highlights (non-black portions on the left side) are all shades of orange and the shadows (non-white portions on the right side) are all shades of blue:



Remember that part of the reason for the duotone process is to make ones black and white photos print in a more pleasing way, especially since printers do a better job making subtle blends than they do trying to print 256 shades of gray with one color of ink (black). If introducing blue and orange to the mix results in a pleasing b/w appearance and prints well, then that sounds like duotone to me. (And the photo printed beautifully, by the way).

[xs400]

First, here's a nice link that discusses (one way) how to do duotone conversions in PhotoShop: Duotone Tutorial

A "true" duotone is simply an image printed on paper using two different inks instead of just one. Typically black is still one of the inks, but it doesn't have to be. Two grayscale versions of the image (a separation) define the density (amount) of each ink needed to create the final print. The tutorial link above essentially uses the PS tool to create an actual duotone separation. It then uses the "preview" image as the digital output (for web display, inkjet, etc).

I used the link supplied above by SWEnginner and followed the description in the link to create the following Duotone image of the Golden Gate Bridge. The two colors I chose for my duotone image were black and yellow.