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More PP work
Posted By: thomasjmpark, 01-28-2008, 10:35 AM

Hi,

Spent a bit more time on these photos to get them as close as possible to the way I want them. Am starting to enjoy the PP stage whereas before I found it a bit of a chore...







I must have 1000's of unprocessed shots of this magic place (dont worry i wont post them all!) and so have alot bum on seat time coming up!

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01-28-2008, 10:42 AM   #2
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welcome to the dark side

i have declined dinner and movie invitations in favor of screwing around in Photoshop, its very addictive.

very good work btw, personaly i think the future of photography will soon be a focus on post processing techniques
01-28-2008, 11:23 AM   #3
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Gooshin while I think there certainly is a place for PP, it would be a shame if Photography does evolve to that stage totally IMHO.
On some sights now, its the best computer wizz who gets the recognition as the best photos. Shame I reckon.
01-28-2008, 11:26 AM   #4
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QuoteQuote:
very good work btw, personaly i think the future of photography will soon be a focus on post processing techniques
I think i know what you meen. Im from the digital era having never used film, but it seems that you can take a picture and use advanced software to make them look better.

I would consider myself a relative beginner to photography but seem to be able to produce some pretty good results, not from the original but from PP. I dont know if this is good or disheartening as it seems relatively easy to the photoshop generation.

I dont know really, personally I have a always been into art in different forms and hope that that is a good enough background for getting into photography.

In a way I guess what im asking of myself is: am i good at photography or PS, having learned the program working as a graphic designer and technical illustrator (both of which has seen the redundancy of traditional techniques due the computers) I am now using it a different and new way but at what cost?! Maybe its always going to be a hot topic for debate.

Enough rambling anyway, thanks for comments

01-28-2008, 11:33 AM   #5
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i have had this argument with my good friend over and over again, he wont buy into my propoganda but this is my take on it

every year there are more and more people who take pictures, and the tools they use become advanced to the point where the camera starts to take out the skill out of the process


50 years ago to have a wide angle shot of the Vatican would have been a prized possession, nowdays we see more and more pictures of exotic places and of just interesting stuff in general

i say in about 10-20 years the world wide web will be flooded with endless amounts of photographs of EVERYTHING

and probably alot of it will be REALLY GOOD photographs, so among the sea of really good and creative photography, how do you start to stick out of the pack?

well, i believe the answer will lie in creative manipulation and advancement of photo editing programs and general usage of design and combining images with text and so forth.
01-28-2008, 12:12 PM   #6
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Yes I see what you are saying. My belief is that talent will shine through, as has always been the case, that the artist should shine through and win hands down.

But, and a big but, it seems hard to distinguish these days. You can buy a phone that has 5MP and take terrific shots but do these people buy it for the phone or the camera? and are the shots they take planned? I cant imagine a serious photographer going into the Lake District armed with the best SLR thinking he can just set up any old shot, be home for lunch and spend an hour post processing.

I look at old photographs and dont dont judge them by thinking what 'aperture' or 'exposure' were they taken at but how the final result looks no matter what process was involved.

Am ranting again, sorry, need to lay off the 'buy one get one free' pack of beer!!
01-28-2008, 12:29 PM   #7
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First Thomas these are great shots.
As for the discussion on PP, well my take is that like a house, without a solid foundation (RAW image) there is no amount of PP that can turn a crappy shot into a prize winner. You still have to understand the proper use of the camera and good technique in shooting and exposure/composition.

Photogs have been dodging and burning negatives since the first cameras were invented. The cream will always rise to the top and I think (or at least hope) that this will always be the way.

01-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
First Thomas these are great shots.
As for the discussion on PP, well my take is that like a house, without a solid foundation (RAW image) there is no amount of PP that can turn a crappy shot into a prize winner. You still have to understand the proper use of the camera and good technique in shooting and exposure/composition.

Photogs have been dodging and burning negatives since the first cameras were invented. The cream will always rise to the top and I think (or at least hope) that this will always be the way.
well, think 5 years ahead when "MEMORY" will jump to such levels that we will no longer even think in megabytes

20 gig or 40 gig flash cards (or some other form of memory holding) will be developed, shooting "raw" will be a given, people simply wont care about memory

the cameras that a soccer mom will buy will shoot 32 megapixle images full fram with 16 bit conversions, and all of the cameras will have photoshop built into them for on the fly post processing.


there is no end to technology

40 years ago 5 megabytes of hard drive space cost 12 thousand dollars and the harddrive was about the size of a 17" CRT monitor

how ridiculous is that?!

EDIT: i take back my CRT comment...

i bet this is no more than 10 megabytes....

01-28-2008, 12:51 PM   #9
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You still have to understand the proper use of the camera and good technique in shooting and exposure/composition.
Peter, yes I agree and I dont see the method changing, even if the technology does. Thankyou for your comments.

Gooshin, technology will advance , no doubt, but, i dont see it taking over. My struggle was with people using technology to make photography look better. Both Hardare and software, its always going to be a debate though until it happens
01-29-2008, 01:20 PM   #10
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All very valid points guys. I suggest my thinking comes from being of the 'older' generation, i.e. prior to the computer generation. Computers didnt even exist at my school.
I think it boils down to the fact that if the subject material is not there the photo will never really be a great shot.
Any amount of PP does not make the original subject.
Not to worry, I'll hang in there trying to come to terms with some of the basics of PP.
Who knows, I may master it oneday.
01-29-2008, 01:27 PM   #11
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yea but the scary thing is that the subject doesnt always have to be all that good..

example:

this is one of the first photographs i took when i got my camera:




pretty shitty dont you think so?

lets see what photoshop was able to get out of it



ehh? ehh?


the hardest thing about photoshop is sitting down and starting to work with it, for older people its a huge leap of faith (i know, ive seen my grandfather struggle with basic things like email and web browsing)
01-29-2008, 06:30 PM   #12
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Who knows, I may master it oneday
Well i certainly havnt mastered it and have a huge amount to learn!!
01-29-2008, 07:17 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by thomasjmpark Quote
Hi,

Spent a bit more time on these photos to get them as close as possible to the way I want them. Am starting to enjoy the PP stage whereas before I found it a bit of a chore...







I must have 1000's of unprocessed shots of this magic place (dont worry i wont post them all!) and so have alot bum on seat time coming up!
These are so good - I simply can't do this, at least for images that look like this on a computer screen (I seem to be better when PP a photo for printing - but I've no idea why). Anyway, congrats - these are terrific.

Jer
01-30-2008, 04:08 AM   #14
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These are grand photographs Tom - good work! Seeing your landscapes of the Lake Area really make me want to visit there - and Scotland.

Reluctantly I have to admit that I am from 'the old school' of photography. I cut my teeth on film (well, not literally, but figuratively ) . My Dad shot medium format and 35mm all the time. When I was at home he was a huge influence and source of inspiration. I learned very early that it took plenty of practice to get it right. He continually reinforced my understanding of what f stops were and shutter speed and film speed and how it all tied together to help the photographer make good pictures. I feel, to some extent, that the digital age of photography has expedited a lot of that trial and error process. He would at times take notes while shooting as to light and lens settings then retain that info and apply it to a similar situation in the hopes of improving. Fortunately we have EXIF data to do the note taking for us now. Going digital has not excluded myself and others from taking crappy pictures, though. There is still a creative and artistic process that has to take place between your ears. I can still take a perfectly focused and exposed picture of rubbish! Medium aside (film or pixels), the better photographer will still percolate to the top!

There is nothing wrong with using the tools available to make good pictures. Like someone mentioned, photographers have been pushing and pulling and dodging and burning for many years. Manipulation of the picture is not a new concept to the digital age; it's just quicker now. If my Dad were alive today I know he would enjoy digital photography and playing with images in Photoshop.

I enjoy shooting film and digital images and live blissfully in both worlds.

Last edited by J.Scott; 01-30-2008 at 05:35 AM.
01-30-2008, 04:40 AM   #15
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Awesome shots Thomas - very surreal.

My $0.02 on the PP discussion. As far as picture quality I agree with Peter somewhat at least at this point in technology, skills such as Focus, DOF, aperture, shutter speed, etc matter. But in 5,10,15 years what will we have ?

I can certainly see technology advancing where the camera will be smart enough to take a perfectly focused, exposed shot almost every time. The only input the photographer will have is where to point the camera and press the shutter release (this is not trivial and technology will never affect that). I can also see PP software advancing as well so even in the rare cases you new K600D takes a Ďbadí one PP will rescue it.

Where technology will have no bearing I think. It will always be about the shot, the subject matter. For someone like Ben letís say he can concentrate more on the mood, lighting, costume, pose, expressions, etc. Same with other professionals, sport shooters concentrate on the dramatic moments of the game, news photographers same for their story.

For the enthusiast and amateur like me or a lot of us, technology advances in hardware and software will allow us to take better shots more often of things that we like and change , modify pictures to take us into new worlds.

How can any of this be a bad thing?

Last edited by daacon; 01-30-2008 at 06:03 AM.
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