Originally posted by eddaytona What is an arrest? According to the Supreme Court it is when a "reasonable person" (whatever that is) would not feel free to leave. No magic words or actions are necessary and courts will broadly interpret a stop as investigative in nature rather than a true arrest. It's very fact specific. Mostly you loose esp. if not handcuffed or held at gunpoint.
Investigative Stop: Google "Terry Stop" and then what subsequent court cases say this is including what your state supreme court thinks. Simply put it's complicated. Usually in cases that end in an arrest the cops will claim it started as a "consensual encounter". Sorry but your experience is more akin to a Terry stop and consensual encounter rather than a true arrest.
Hi, I am quite aware what legally constitutes an arrest, and you are correct in your description. The turning point from an inquiry to an arrest is found at the moment that the police, by word or act, require, by legal authority that the citizen stop being free to do as they please, and behave in the manner demanded by the police. In other words, the citizen is no longer free to go.
With that agreement, with the police officer in possession of my weapon, and identification, I was NOT free to go. There was no need for me to ask, the circumstances set in motion by the police, required that I stay and NOT go.
The policeman asked if I had taken upskirts.
I told him that I had not.
He asked if I was armed.
I told him I have a permit, and that yes I am armed.
Now, if he had accepted my denial of taking upskirts and left, at that time, I would NOT have been arrested, as I was at that time free to go.
I want to be clear, that I understand exactly why I was asked about weapons, and I understand why he needed to see my ID and take my weapon, and I absolutely agree that his actions were necessary. That being said, it does NOT change the fact that until he took my ID and weapon, I was not arrested, and AFTER he took my ID and weapon, I WAS arrested, I was no longer free to go. No reasonable person would think that I was "free to go". I was NOT.
The officer and I BOTH were polite, professional and cordial. I also think were both mildly amused at the situation that forced us both to be involved in the asinine positions we were in. The circumstances forced upon us by the ignorance and stupidity of both the girl that started the mess and the management of Walmart.
The officer and I enjoyed a short but enjoyable conversation about photography while he waited for his dispatch to run my ID, and check the numbers on my pistol. There was absolutely not any confrontational aspect of our interaction.
I told myself that I was not going to respond to any further comments about my "arrest" because most of the comments made on that subject are just uninformed and inexperienced opinions and at least your comment made some allusion to the legal reality of what courts have ruled, if not the reality of my experience.
I have been arrested several times, I know exactly what an arrest is. I have arrested several people myself. I DO know what this is all about.
With that said, Please, no more comments on what an arrest is.
Thanks.
---------- Post added 10-22-14 at 01:59 ----------
Originally posted by robjmitchell Did you ever stop to think that by antagonising others for the purpose of "defending your rights" directly leads to society changing its laws and removing all our rights!
I could understand if you had taken a stunning photo, but giving photographers a bad name for a terrible out of focus photo is a bit stupid is in not?
Yep.
I think about that fairly often, actually. I have seen news reports of people who are protesting, and instead of being content to speak and accept that some people do not agree, will begin shouting accusations, and instigating confrontation. Being unreasonable and antagonistic. It is sad to see such displays of stubborn stupidity and ignorance.
For instance a woman shouting at me across a parking lot, demanding that I delete my images from my camera, insisting that I am a criminal, and then taking that baseless accusation and complaint to the point that I am arrested.
Sigh.
Once again, I will address the situation.
If I had agreed to delete her pictures, that would have given credence to her mistaken belief that I had no legal right to take pictures of people in a public setting. Let's be clear, I do have that right, as do you. Would you care to explain how much you would love to have a court determine that you do NOT have that right??
If I had agreed to delete her pictures, would she then demand the privilege of inspecting every image on my camera to be certain that I had in fact deleted the ones that she objected to? Would she insist that she had the right to examine every picture I have, to be certain that I do not have any that she might object to??
Where does that end? You were not there. You did not experience her utter disregard for anything but what she demanded, and her anger at me for having the impertinent and insufferable temerity to point a camera at her. If she had been able to get close enough to view the photos I had taken I am quite certain she would have pressed her insistence until I had either deleted every photo on my camera, or she had damaged or taken it from me. She was not reasonable, nor would I consider her attitude, demeanor or behavior civil, nor sane.
Then we may consider that perhaps i should have deleted the pictures anyways, regardless of whether she knew that i had deleted them. To that I say two things;
the deletion of those photos would not have in any way affected the trouble that she caused for me in the slightest.
if I had deleted those two images, I would not have had a story with pictures that encompassed the whole story, and you would have no reason to have commented, nor I to reply.
As for giving photographers a bad name, I hardly think that any action or inaction on my part would have changed HER opinions about photographers in the slightest. Was there some other person involved in my experience that I am not aware of?
The management of the Walmart? They were poisoned by her insidious complaint and accusation already, again, no action or inaction on my part would have changed their opinion of me, or you either.