Black & White 50 shades...

50 shades... · **4 Likes**

Although I thought my B&W images were okay, I recently changed the workflow for the conversion in B&W to get more intermediate gray 'shades'... And I must say it dramatically improved the photos, unexpectedly (at least to me)....

Lighthouse Lofoten by Rense Haveman, on Flickr

CreationBear · 02-28-2016, 09:32 AM

Ha, I knew I was seeing something.

So that is all with sliders in ACR/Lightroom? (FWIW, Keitha McCall does a lot of magic that way using White Balance and Camera Profile, working especially, I think, with the blue channel.)

**Rense** · 02-28-2016, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by CreationBear

Ha, I knew I was seeing something.

So that is all with sliders in ACR/Lightroom? (FWIW, Keitha McCall does a lot of magic that way using White Balance and Camera Profile, working especially, I think, with the blue channel.)

Yep, all done in LR!

tuco · 02-28-2016, 09:54 AM

Both a nice shot and nice tonal scale.

**Rense** · 02-28-2016, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by tuco

Both a nice shot and nice tonal scale.

Thank you! And not even MF....

slowpez · 02-29-2016, 09:46 AM

Gorgeous Rense.

**Rense** · 02-29-2016, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by slowpez

Gorgeous Rense.

Thank you, Susan!

**JensE** · 03-02-2016, 05:29 PM

The shot above looks very similar to a view much further south (Lista Fyr - happens to hang on my wall), immense effect of the Gulf Stream.

Originally posted by First Poster

... changed the workflow for the conversion in B&W ...

Whatever you do differently now, you seem to nail it every single time, really great tones in all your recently submitted b&w pictures, like https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/21...ml#post3555352 or the ones in https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/79...ml#post3554982.

Have you tried how they look in print? I found that pictures with a lot of dark tones, which you seem to prefer, tend to need some tweaking for prints. I recently ordered some in both versions and I found that 'wet prints' (on color paper) had much greater depth than inkjet prints on various papers.

**Rense** · 03-03-2016, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by JensE

The shot above looks very similar to a view much further south (Lista Fyr - happens to hang on my wall), immense effect of the Gulf Stream.

Whatever you do differently now, you seem to nail it every single time, really great tones in all your recently submitted b&w pictures, like https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/21...ml#post3555352 or the ones in https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/79...ml#post3554982.

Have you tried how they look in print? I found that pictures with a lot of dark tones, which you seem to prefer, tend to need some tweaking for prints. I recently ordered some in both versions and I found that 'wet prints' (on color paper) had much greater depth than inkjet prints on various papers.

Thank you, Jens!

No, I haven't had them printed, but I am planning to. Thank you for the hints concerning the dark tones, I will have to see how that'll work out. A slight problem might be that my monitor is not calibrated, and on my laptop these photos look a tad darker then on the screen of the computer I do my PP on.... We will see....
You mention colour paper, but I intended to have them printed on dedicated B&W paper. Do you think they look better on colour paper?

**JensE** · 03-03-2016, 02:02 PM - **1 Like**

A good calibrated monitor really helps to get consistent results. Even with our profiled laptop IPS screen and color-managed applications, after returning from a trip, I often find myself doing some color or exposure touch-up on my wide-gamut factory-calibrated and regularly profiled desktop monitor (NEC PA272W - highly recommended!), The results look remarkably consistent with what I get from the printing company.

Originally posted by Rense

... but I intended to have them printed on dedicated B&W paper.

Lately I have used services from Saal Digital (Germany) - they have proper color management, support AdobeRGB color space, provide precise instructions on how to embed profiles correctly and soft-proofing profiles for their media. They offer Inkjet prints on a range of different papers/materials and digital exposures ('wet prints') on various FUJIFILM color papers plus Kodak Metallic. I am not aware of anybody offering digital exposures on classic silver halide based black and white photographic papers. Pure gray scale images result in absolutely neutral prints on Fujifil Crystal Archive DPII, only under fluroscent light (Osram color 830, CRI 85) I can make out a slight magenta cast. Daylight, high-CRI LEDs (using specific Osram Parathom with color 930 / CRI 93) and incandescent light are all fine. There is a world of a difference in terms of shadows compared to the inkjet print in the same size, e.g. 30cm x 45cm for the below, printed on Hahnemühle FineArt Pearl. Not sure what specific printer/inks are used. As you can hopefully see, the below also heavily relies on good differentiation of dark tones - in hindsight a little too dark.

So in summary, the above works well on photographic paper but not so well on inkjet paper.

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02-28-2016, 09:32 AM	#2
CreationBear Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,395	Ha, I knew I was seeing something. So that is all with sliders in ACR/Lightroom? (FWIW, Keitha McCall does a lot of magic that way using White Balance and Camera Profile, working especially, I think, with the blue channel.)

02-28-2016, 09:41 AM	#3
Rense Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zetten - The Netherlands Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,907 Original Poster	Originally posted by CreationBear Ha, I knew I was seeing something. So that is all with sliders in ACR/Lightroom? (FWIW, Keitha McCall does a lot of magic that way using White Balance and Camera Profile, working especially, I think, with the blue channel.) Yep, all done in LR!

02-28-2016, 09:54 AM	#4
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 7,830	Both a nice shot and nice tonal scale.

02-28-2016, 09:56 AM	#5
Rense Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zetten - The Netherlands Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,907 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco Both a nice shot and nice tonal scale. Thank you! And not even MF....

02-29-2016, 09:46 AM	#6
slowpez Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,848	Gorgeous Rense.

02-29-2016, 12:07 PM	#7
Rense Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zetten - The Netherlands Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,907 Original Poster	Originally posted by slowpez Gorgeous Rense. Thank you, Susan!

03-02-2016, 05:29 PM	#8
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 477	The shot above looks very similar to a view much further south (Lista Fyr - happens to hang on my wall), immense effect of the Gulf Stream. Originally posted by First Poster ... changed the workflow for the conversion in B&W ... Whatever you do differently now, you seem to nail it every single time, really great tones in all your recently submitted b&w pictures, like https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/21...ml#post3555352 or the ones in https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/79...ml#post3554982. Have you tried how they look in print? I found that pictures with a lot of dark tones, which you seem to prefer, tend to need some tweaking for prints. I recently ordered some in both versions and I found that 'wet prints' (on color paper) had much greater depth than inkjet prints on various papers.

03-03-2016, 12:24 AM	#9
Rense Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zetten - The Netherlands Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,907 Original Poster	Originally posted by JensE The shot above looks very similar to a view much further south (Lista Fyr - happens to hang on my wall), immense effect of the Gulf Stream. Whatever you do differently now, you seem to nail it every single time, really great tones in all your recently submitted b&w pictures, like https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/21...ml#post3555352 or the ones in https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/79...ml#post3554982. Have you tried how they look in print? I found that pictures with a lot of dark tones, which you seem to prefer, tend to need some tweaking for prints. I recently ordered some in both versions and I found that 'wet prints' (on color paper) had much greater depth than inkjet prints on various papers. Thank you, Jens! No, I haven't had them printed, but I am planning to. Thank you for the hints concerning the dark tones, I will have to see how that'll work out. A slight problem might be that my monitor is not calibrated, and on my laptop these photos look a tad darker then on the screen of the computer I do my PP on.... We will see.... You mention colour paper, but I intended to have them printed on dedicated B&W paper. Do you think they look better on colour paper?

03-03-2016, 02:02 PM - 1 Like	#10
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 477	A good calibrated monitor really helps to get consistent results. Even with our profiled laptop IPS screen and color-managed applications, after returning from a trip, I often find myself doing some color or exposure touch-up on my wide-gamut factory-calibrated and regularly profiled desktop monitor (NEC PA272W - highly recommended!), The results look remarkably consistent with what I get from the printing company. Originally posted by Rense ... but I intended to have them printed on dedicated B&W paper. Lately I have used services from Saal Digital (Germany) - they have proper color management, support AdobeRGB color space, provide precise instructions on how to embed profiles correctly and soft-proofing profiles for their media. They offer Inkjet prints on a range of different papers/materials and digital exposures ('wet prints') on various FUJIFILM color papers plus Kodak Metallic. I am not aware of anybody offering digital exposures on classic silver halide based black and white photographic papers. Pure gray scale images result in absolutely neutral prints on Fujifil Crystal Archive DPII, only under fluroscent light (Osram color 830, CRI 85) I can make out a slight magenta cast. Daylight, high-CRI LEDs (using specific Osram Parathom with color 930 / CRI 93) and incandescent light are all fine. There is a world of a difference in terms of shadows compared to the inkjet print in the same size, e.g. 30cm x 45cm for the below, printed on Hahnemühle FineArt Pearl. Not sure what specific printer/inks are used. As you can hopefully see, the below also heavily relies on good differentiation of dark tones - in hindsight a little too dark. So in summary, the above works well on photographic paper but not so well on inkjet paper.