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The Cottage
Posted By: Kerrowdown, 10-27-2022, 02:26 PM

Another not square building...

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10-27-2022, 02:52 PM   #2
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Having just returned from the UK I now understand why all the Harry Potter architecture is crooked. Most of the UK looks just like the movies.

I’m not sure the builders know the terms “square” and “right angle”
10-27-2022, 03:20 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I’m not sure the builders know the terms “square” and “right angle”
I often wonder how it's still standing hundreds of years on...
10-27-2022, 03:30 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Having just returned from the UK I now understand why all the Harry Potter architecture is crooked. Most of the UK looks just like the movies.

I’m not sure the builders know the terms “square” and “right angle”
The sag in the roof plane gives an indication that it’s maintenance, not construction that’s the problem.

As a counter example, I once worked in a heritage precinct that had a helicopter landing pad adjacent, and the downwash from the rotors actually shifted the entire roof of one 19th Century building – not that the roof was badly maintained, but its thick oak framing wasn’t fixed to the walls!

10-27-2022, 05:22 PM   #5
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Interesting shot!
I suspect that the curves are due to not using standard dimension lumber.
I've found it is very much easier to build with dimensioned (milled) lumber than it is to make a straight roof line from the bole of an oak that has been "straightened with an adze.
And the walls don't look like our typical framed houses. Very difficult to achieve "square with that sort of raw material.
But square isn't really necessary when square is not needed.
I like the looks of it, and I like the capable hands and eyes that put it together so well that it can endure so long.
Angky.
10-27-2022, 06:13 PM   #6
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This one makes you wonder if was ever close to square. Everything above the rock walls and lower windows seems pretty happenstance. Could it be that the upper level was added at a later date for need of additional space? Good shot of all the irregularities.
10-27-2022, 06:32 PM   #7
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Look at the sag on the roof ridge, then look at the front section again. The middle of the outside wall has moved out compared with the right-hand edge. The bulge in the front corresponds with the sag in the roof, and that's an indication that the two things are connected.


As for modern milling of timber being the answer to alignment, I don't think that we should get too smug about it. Substantial buildings of that era were made from larger section timbers that were hand cut, often with two-man saws and were sufficiently square for the purpose (house-building isn't precision engineering – German Hoft houses and the like are the closest thing to that). Water ingress and the associated timber rot from leaky roofs is the major cause of structural failures like this.

10-27-2022, 08:24 PM   #8
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I am with Rob. It is definitely the roof failure that is pushing the wall out, and water intrusion is a likely culprit. I imagine the opposite side looks pretty much the same unless there is something else restraining it. I am not sure that I would knock the old timber framing materials, since they were typically cut from very good old-growth trees. There are plenty of several hundred-year-old churches and cathedrals with the original timber roof structures that still look like they did when they were built.
10-28-2022, 01:37 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The sag in the roof plane gives an indication that it’s maintenance, not construction that’s the problem.

As a counter example, I once worked in a heritage precinct that had a helicopter landing pad adjacent, and the downwash from the rotors actually shifted the entire roof of one 19th Century building – not that the roof was badly maintained, but its thick oak framing wasn’t fixed to the walls!
I did wonder if this might have a lack of maintenance issue.
10-28-2022, 01:41 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by angkymac Quote
Interesting shot!
I suspect that the curves are due to not using standard dimension lumber.
I've found it is very much easier to build with dimensioned (milled) lumber than it is to make a straight roof line from the bole of an oak that has been "straightened with an adze.
And the walls don't look like our typical framed houses. Very difficult to achieve "square with that sort of raw material.
But square isn't really necessary when square is not needed.
I like the looks of it, and I like the capable hands and eyes that put it together so well that it can endure so long.
Angky.
Absolutely as standard sized timber hadn’t been invented yet.

I’m thinking that’s not the issue displayed here.
10-28-2022, 01:41 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeNArk Quote
This one makes you wonder if was ever close to square. Everything above the rock walls and lower windows seems pretty happenstance. Could it be that the upper level was added at a later date for need of additional space? Good shot of all the irregularities.
Aye I see where your coming from…
10-28-2022, 01:42 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Look at the sag on the roof ridge, then look at the front section again. The middle of the outside wall has moved out compared with the right-hand edge. The bulge in the front corresponds with the sag in the roof, and that's an indication that the two things are connected.


As for modern milling of timber being the answer to alignment, I don't think that we should get too smug about it. Substantial buildings of that era were made from larger section timbers that were hand cut, often with two-man saws and were sufficiently square for the purpose (house-building isn't precision engineering – German Hoft houses and the like are the closest thing to that). Water ingress and the associated timber rot from leaky roofs is the major cause of structural failures like this.
Yep… your explanation gets my vote.
10-28-2022, 01:44 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by ToddK Quote
I am with Rob. It is definitely the roof failure that is pushing the wall out, and water intrusion is a likely culprit. I imagine the opposite side looks pretty much the same unless there is something else restraining it. I am not sure that I would knock the old timber framing materials, since they were typically cut from very good old-growth trees. There are plenty of several hundred-year-old churches and cathedrals with the original timber roof structures that still look like they did when they were built.
I think we’ve a winner.
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