One of the assigment for class is to shoot an image with a framing element. It could be anything just as long as it is framed.

I am stock between these two image. I really like both but I would like some inputs on which would is better and why. I know at the end of the day it would be me that would make the final decision.

Both image shot with my Pentax ZX-L film slr camera loaded with Kodax tri-x 400 film. I scanned the negative with my Canon flatbed scanner.

1
I admit the framing of the cross is not perfectly centered, it shift to the right a little. But the like the "human" element in the picture. That little girl playing really adds to the image for me. I also like this one because it is more unique, you don't see this image everyday.



2
I see this image as more generic. I seen this done many times because it works. It looks nice and simple. The main framing subject is the cross but I wish I would of watched out for the tree leaves that blocks a little bit of the seal or creast under the main cross.



Tell me what you like and don't like about both image and why.

Thank you,
SAi

[Canada_Rockies]

They both demonstrate framing. As an image, I prefer by a slight margin the church with the trees forming the frame, but the girl is good as well.

If there is any detail in the portions outside the archway, and if you can bring them out, I think it would help the first image, and might even push it to better in my eyes.

If the scan shows detail, or if you can scan lighter by a stop and darker by a stop, Photomatix should be able to pull them together without destroying the mood. I just did that with a DSLR image a student took in a course I gave. I took the original, which was RAW NEF, raised the exposure one stop on a copy, lowered the exposure a stop on another copy giving a two stop difference, then put them together using Photomatix and the Highlight/Shadow two image assembly. It worked quite well.

[SuperAkuma]

They both demonstrate framing. As an image, I prefer by a slight margin the church with the trees forming the frame, but the girl is good as well.

If there is any detail in the portions outside the archway, and if you can bring them out, I think it would help the first image, and might even push it to better in my eyes.

If the scan shows detail, or if you can scan lighter by a stop and darker by a stop, Photomatix should be able to pull them together without destroying the mood. I just did that with a DSLR image a student took in a course I gave. I took the original, which was RAW NEF, raised the exposure one stop on a copy, lowered the exposure a stop on another copy giving a two stop difference, then put them together using Photomatix and the Highlight/Shadow two image assembly. It worked quite well.

Thanks for the reply.

The first image with the little girl is heavily cropped. Here is a quick process on the first image without cropping and bringing out the details.
I didn't think there was enough detail to "add" to the image so I left the walls dark. I know in the dark room(and photoshop) I can pull out the details.

[Canada_Rockies]

Thanks for the reply.

The first image with the little girl is heavily cropped. Here is a quick process on the first image without cropping and bringing out the details.
I didn't think there was enough detail to "add" to the image so I left the walls dark. I know in the dark room(and photoshop) I can pull out the details.

I think the crop is good, but the girl comes out better in the darker shot. Try taking the walls from the shot above and adding the girl from the first upload. I'm not sure what you have for software. I used Lightroom 2.3 and made virtual copies one stop brighter than the original and one stop darker, exported them as full size jpegs and used Photomatix to reassemble. If you don't have photomatix, and are not comfortable doing this in layers, pull down a trial version of Photomatix. I think you will need somehow to keep the proper exposure on the girl as in the original upload while adding the walls from the shot above.

Hi Sai, I agree with what Albert said about the picture with the little girl, I like the detail in the walls, they lead the viewer in to the image and it is my favourite of the two, it's more dramatic. I'm not to bothered about the little girl, in fact I think it adds a little mystique that she doesn't show up too clearly. Personally I would probably try and PP out the crossbar at the top of the arch, I know it's part of the structure but it does detract from the shot.

I think the second one would have a bit more impact if you cropped out the top of the arch at the bottom but I still prefer the first one, assuming you include the detail in the walls.

[SuperAkuma]

I have no problem using photoshop. The problem is this is a film class and I am limited to what I can do on the dark room. I converted it to digital and used photoshop in order to show an example of how the image may look like. Believe me I wish I can print this using my "digital" copy but the teacher won't allow that.

[daacon]

Personally I like the second shot. The frame is 'softer',not as defined and really draws the viewer attention the the steeple and cross.

[wildman]

I think the first one goes beyond your assignment as an exercise in doing a simple framing shot...

... it sets up a strong dichotomy between being inside and looking out and being isolated from what is beyond the gate. The little girl shows no interest in what's inside the gate and everything is from the viewpoint of being inside looking out and being isolated from the life of the street.

I can imagine some old Nun standing inside her isolated cloister thinking " if I had not chosen god over the world that child might be mine" or something like that.

It's a framing shot all right but the "framing" is psychological rather than physical and this makes it, as a pure image, much stronger, and poetic than the second shot.

Whether your instructor will see it the same way I do is doubtful however.

[aleonx3]

I don't understand the "framing element" in the second picture at all, unless you mean object in the picture with some symmetry element such as the cross in the center. Like the others, I prefer the 1st image. It attracts my attention to look for something interesting inside the gate. Depending on the mood (lighting and texture) you have captured, it can provide a powerful or subdue image to your audience. I have done quite a few of these, and each one draws a different reaction. Again, my preference is the first image.

[Canada_Rockies]

I don't understand the "framing element" in the second picture at all, unless you mean object in the picture with some symmetry element such as the cross in the center. Like the others, I prefer the 1st image. It attracts my attention to look for something interesting inside the gate. Depending on the mood (lighting and texture) you have captured, it can provide a powerful or subdue image to your audience. I have done quite a few of these, and each one draws a different reaction. Again, my preference is the first image.

The framing element is the branches in the second shot.

[Canada_Rockies]

I have no problem using photoshop. The problem is this is a film class and I am limited to what I can do on the dark room. I converted it to digital and used photoshop in order to show an example of how the image may look like. Believe me I wish I can print this using my "digital" copy but the teacher won't allow that.

You can do it in the darkroom. You need to create a mask with an opening that matches the archway. Expose the print for the walls of the hallway, but keep it very dark. Show just enough of the pillars that they are visible, as in the second image. Then with the mask, add a bit more exposure to bring out the girl and the gate. Don't forget to "shake" the mask during the exposure to feather the edges and make the print look much more natural.

[SuperAkuma]

You can do it in the darkroom. You need to create a mask with an opening that matches the archway. Expose the print for the walls of the hallway, but keep it very dark. Show just enough of the pillars that they are visible, as in the second image. Then with the mask, add a bit more exposure to bring out the girl and the gate. Don't forget to "shake" the mask during the exposure to feather the edges and make the print look much more natural.

I have not tried doing the making in the darkroom, I've only done dodging and burning. I made a test print of that image already so maybe I can cut the arch and use that for the mask. Thanks for the tip.

wildman,
I like your explanation. It is a little too much for me but I like it. I never looked at it that way but you know what they say, a picture can have a 1000 different meaning.
BTW, I am on the OUTSIDE looking IN. Inside is a school playground enclosed by the gates.

[mikeSF]

quick, somebody please phony up the same shot rendered with a nun and a thought bubble - wildman, that interpretation was brilliant, man.

[wildman]

"BTW, I am on the OUTSIDE looking IN. Inside is a school playground enclosed by the gates."

For me what a image means always trumps what a image is.

"BTW, I am on the OUTSIDE looking IN. Inside is a school playground enclosed by the gates."

For me what a image means always trumps what a image is.

You are so right, well said.