this neglected flag was atop an old tugboat in the providence harbor, providence r.i.
soapbox time... this always raises my blood pressure....

[kevinschoenmakers]

As a European unaccustomed to your level of patriotism I find it fascinating you would get angry at such a sight.

[Jimbo]

I like the flag. I agree the US does wave a lot of them compared to most countries, including Canada but thats not a bad thing at all. Cheers JIM

[RoxnDox]

As a European unaccustomed to your level of patriotism I find it fascinating you would get angry at such a sight.

It's a symbol that should be treated with respect. This is not showing respect! Is there no symbol you might feel the same way about? Something of your country, your church, your family, something? Many (perhaps most) of us humans have *something* we feel this way about. Part of what makes us group together as social beings.

edit: Let me add, I would be just as unhappy to see a Canadian, Dutch, or whatever flag treated this poorly! Not just the US flag...

Jim

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Last edited by RoxnDox; 11-09-2009 at 08:46 AM. Reason: added

[dcmsox2004]

as children, we are taught to respect our flag, and pledge allegiance to it... also taught to never let it touch the ground.... as that would desecrate it..... also, the veterans of foreign wars, will actually help replace worn or damaged flags, at no cost....
According to United States Code found in Title 36, Chapter 10 pertaining to patriotic customs and observances:

§176(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

These laws were supplemented by Executive Orders and Presidential Proclamations.[8]
Flag Rules and Regulations

[MRRiley]

this neglected flag was atop an old tugboat in the providence harbor, providence r.i.
soapbox time... this always raises my blood pressure....

I share your anger. It's puzzling to me why someone would fly a flag in this state of disrepair. Afterall, if you go to the trouble of flying it you should at least fly it with pride. If you can't do that then don't fly it at all.

Back when the U.S. was involved in the war in Kosovo, I was in the Air Force stationed in central Texas. Being a military town, Abilene was festooned with flags. After several months though, the Texas winds were talking their toll. One used car lot on my way home was flying about 25 flags (on light poles) and eventually all were mere strips of cloth.

I stopped in one Friday afternoon and asked to speak to the manager or owner. When the manager appeared I explained that I was taking it as a sign of disrespect that the flags were in such a sorry state. He said he understood but that they couldn't afford to replace them all. I replied that he should do his best but at least should take the most damaged ones down. It was a cordial conversation but I could tell that he was a bit put off by some shmuck in a blue uniform telling him something he should have known all along. He finally said he'd do what he could and I left. The next Monday, on my way home I made a point to see what if anything had been done. The damaged flags were ALL gone and had been replaced by one huge and brand new flag on a hundred foot tall pole!

I stopped in and thanked the manager profusely and he explained that the owner had been mortified by my comments and had spent several thousand dollars to right the wrong (and keep the goodwill he enjoyed with the base). Nice end to the story...

Mike (Retired USAF MSgt)

p.s. Kevin... are you saying you wouldn't be the least bit put out by seeing the flag of the Netherlands flown in such a state?

[UpNorth]

I'm with you Jim. If it's too much work to replace the worn out flag, then just remove it until you can afford the $'s, or time, or whatever to get a new one.

Tim

[kevinschoenmakers]

as children, we are taught to respect our flag, and pledge allegiance to it... also taught to never let it touch the ground.... as that would desecrate it..... also, the veterans of foreign wars, will actually help replace worn or damaged flags, at no cost....
According to United States Code found in Title 36, Chapter 10 pertaining to patriotic customs and observances:

§176(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

These laws were supplemented by Executive Orders and Presidential Proclamations.[8]
Flag Rules and Regulations

Dutch children are never taught these kind of things regarding our flag, or any other national symbol for that matter. Your stance on flags would no doubt be frowned upon in my country, no less would having children pledge an allegiance to it.

[Heinrich Lohmann]

As a European unaccustomed to your level of patriotism I find it fascinating you would get angry at such a sight.

The flag is a symbol of your country, if you love and respect your country how can you not have the same respect for the flag that represents your country. We proudly fly our Canadian Flag and as soon as it starts showing any wear it gets replaced.

[kevinschoenmakers]

The flag is a symbol of your country, if you love and respect your country how can you not have the same respect for the flag that represents your country. We proudly fly our Canadian Flag and as soon as it starts showing any wear it gets replaced.

To me personally a flag has little importance, it's a piece of cloth. I'm proud of my country because we have the most liberal laws when it comes to personal freedoms (think gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion). To me, these things are more a symbol of my country than a piece of cloth painted with a red, white and blue line on it. If someone were to argue (please don't here, this is not the place) against those kind of laws or say the Netherlands is a worse place for it, I would certainly not stay as cool-headed as I might wish to stay. But if I saw a Dutch flag in a bad state I would certainly not get offended.

[MRRiley]

To me personally a flag has little importance, it's a piece of cloth. I'm proud of my country because we have the most liberal laws when it comes to personal freedoms (think gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion). To me, these things are more a symbol of my country than a piece of cloth painted with a red, white and blue line on it. If someone were to argue (please don't here, this is not the place) against those kind of laws or say the Netherlands is a worse place for it, I would certainly not stay as cool-headed as I might wish to stay. But if I saw a Dutch flag in a bad state I would certainly not get offended.

I guess that is your privilege Kevin. Now, I have no idea how old you are or if you have ever served in your military (does the NL even have a military?) but I suspect that many of your country's service members or citizens over 40 or so do not share your attitude. Of course I could be totally and completely wrong and if your's is the prevailing attitude in the Netherlands then who am I to say you/they are wrong. Your country, your way, more power to you. I do applaud many of your country's progressive positions.

Mike

[dcmsox2004]

To me personally a flag has little importance, it's a piece of cloth. I'm proud of my country because we have the most liberal laws when it comes to personal freedoms (think gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion). To me, these things are more a symbol of my country than a piece of cloth painted with a red, white and blue line on it. If someone were to argue (please don't here, this is not the place) against those kind of laws or say the Netherlands is a worse place for it, I would certainly not stay as cool-headed as I might wish to stay. But if I saw a Dutch flag in a bad state I would certainly not get offended.

Dutch Flag Etiquette

*

Dutch Flag etiquette is very strict and is is essential that Flag protocols and rules are followed correctly
*

Basic Flag Etiquette applies to all nations, including Dutch as follows:
*

Etiquette relating to the order of precedence for the flag
o

National Flag of Dutch
o

State Flag of Dutch
o

Military Flag of Dutch (in order of creation date)
o

Other Flag of Dutch
*

The United Nations uses alphabetical order when presenting a national flag including the Dutch Flag. Their flag etiquette ensures that no one country's flag has precedence over another country's flag
*

The National flag of Dutch should never be flown above another national flag on the same staff as this would suggest superiority, or conversely, inferiority of one flag, or Nation, over another
*

The Dutch flag should never be allowed to drag along the ground
*

A tattered or faded flag of Dutch should be removed and replaced with a new flag
*

Due care and consideration must be taken to ensure that the Dutch flag is always flown the correct way up
*

A Flag of Dutch, when in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem of display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning in private with all due care and respect

[kevinschoenmakers]

I guess that is your privilege Kevin. Now, I have no idea how old you are or if you have ever served in your military (does the NL even have a military?) but I suspect that many of your country's service members or citizens over 40 or so do not share your attitude. Of course I could be totally and completely wrong and if your's is the prevailing attitude in the Netherlands then who am I to say you/they are wrong. Your country, your way, more power to you. I do applaud many of your country's progressive positions.

Mike

Of course there are many Dutchmen and women who are more patriotic than me. But I daresay it doesn't nearly reach the levels of American patriotism. For example, american children are apparently being taught to respect the flag, whereas Dutch children aren't. We're also a much more left-wing country than America is (democrats would still be considered rightwing), which I think is significant in this case.

By the way, we do have a military. They're deployed in Afghanistan (and on some small peacekeeping missions elsewhere) right now, and have fought in Iraq as well.

[MRRiley]

Of course there are many Dutchmen and women who are more patriotic than me. But I daresay it doesn't nearly reach the levels of American patriotism. For example, american children are apparently being taught to respect the flag, whereas Dutch children aren't. We're also a much more left-wing country than America is (democrats would still be considered rightwing), which I think is significant in this case.

By the way, we do have a military. They're deployed in Afghanistan (and on some small peacekeeping missions elsewhere) right now, and have fought in Iraq as well.

BTW... no disrespect was intended toward your military. I simply did not know if the NL maintained a standing military.

Mike

[kevinschoenmakers]

BTW... no disrespect was intended toward your military. I simply did not know if the NL maintained a standing military.

Mike

None taken. Actually the amount of countries without an army is very small. With a few exceptions, only the tiniest of countries lack an army: List of countries without armed forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia