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05-21-2019, 07:27 PM - 3 Likes   #661
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A few more from the 20-40 on K-1 in FF mode;

28mm/f9



30mm/f5



40mm/f5.6 (no crop)


05-22-2019, 11:37 PM - 3 Likes   #662
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20-40+KP

05-25-2019, 12:28 AM   #663
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Thinking of getting this lens for family holiday photos on KP will the AF keep up with little kids? Main concern is the distortion mentioned in reviews.... Thanks for your help
05-25-2019, 12:42 AM - 1 Like   #664
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QuoteOriginally posted by ubjy Quote
Thinking of getting this lens for family holiday photos on KP will the AF keep up with little kids? Main concern is the distortion mentioned in reviews.... Thanks for your help
I haven't really put my 20-40 through the 'moving kids' thing yet, my feeling is you will want to have your camera set up pretty well for it tho (Focus Priority, Hold Off etc). If you have a fast screw drive I would possibly take that as well, just in case, but really I think you'll be fine. It all depends on the kids and how old they are, will they stay still, or are they runners. I have used this lens on the KP and K-1 and I think both those systems drive the AF possibly better than older models. I heard the AF was slow but really I haven't noticed a huge difference, not enough to deter me. I mean... if you want to capture action shots of kids there are more important settings you want to get sorted that will account for a far larger success rate of shots vs 0.3sec slower AF lens etc. Not enough about these settings are really explored imo.

I think something like the DA70 would make a nice compliment to the 20-40, it's small, faster aperture and delivers great results.

Distortion I think is easily fixed, for portrait kid stuff I wouldn't worry at all about it, there's a lot of distortion with the FA ltds but for portrait stuff it looks worse to correct it, live with it, contributes to that pixie dust

05-25-2019, 02:06 AM   #665
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Hi Bruce Banner

Thanks for your advice. It good to hear from someone who owns this lens. Lots of food for thought.
05-25-2019, 10:59 AM - 1 Like   #666
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QuoteOriginally posted by ubjy Quote
Thinking of getting this lens for family holiday photos on KP will the AF keep up with little kids? Main concern is the distortion mentioned in reviews.... Thanks for your help
Strange and baffling to me hearing folk calling this lens a 'walkabout' lens or a holiday lens etc... I have it as my most used landscape lens as it has stellar IQ... Look at the images a few pages back.

Kids on holiday? Just buy a used 18-55mm kit lens or something similar, the 20-40 Limited is an expensive over-
kill for your needs and might not meet the Sony Canikon AF requirements you might require I.e. The equipment does all the work for you with eyeball tracking 400 AF points etc. etc.
05-25-2019, 03:40 PM - 2 Likes   #667
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
Strange and baffling to me hearing folk calling this lens a 'walkabout' lens or a holiday lens etc... I have it as my most used landscape lens as it has stellar IQ... Look at the images a few pages back.

Kids on holiday? Just buy a used 18-55mm kit lens or something similar, the 20-40 Limited is an expensive over-
kill for your needs and might not meet the Sony Canikon AF requirements you might require I.e. The equipment does all the work for you with eyeball tracking 400 AF points etc. etc.
Respectfully disagree. The 18-55 kit lens is definitely not in the same league as the 20-40 and I doubt the fella wants to only snap kids on holidays, I think he'll want to do some nice landscape work. I don't understand why you might struggle to see the 20-40 as being a capable walkaround lens 20-40 on crop is equivalent of 30-60 on FF, which covers a lot of uses. The GRII/III has a 28mm FF equivalent FoV which is close enough to the 20-40 being at 20mm on a KP, so essentially at it's widest it is conforming to a focal length that is has already been deemed extremely versatile. Think of all the kinda shots that a GRII/III can pull off at it's fixed 28mm, plenty of portrait shots, plenty street shots, plenty of landscape shots. And here we haven't even begun to explore the other focal ranges of the 20-40, pushing up to 40mm and f5.6 (for ultimate sharpness) with close range head shots will resolve background bokeh excellently for portraits.

The question being asked is if the AF system will struggle for candid kid shots I think, and my answer to this is probably no more than any other Pentax lens on offering with perhaps the exception of the new DFA50/1.4 which is said to actually perform significantly better in all AF tests related (quickness, accuracy etc).

The 20-40 with a prime for portraits would be an excellent holiday package, especially if you can choose that prime wisely, something that is either small like a FA43, DA70 or even just a cheap Tak 135 for longer reach. But make no mistake the 20-40 can still 'do it all', really it comes down to spending enough time with that lens, getting the most out of the focal lengths and aperture choices at those focal lengths. Any lens can be a portrait lens if you learn it.

My point is you will overcome any AF sluggishness for candid shots if you exploit the inner menu settings more. For example, a kid running along a beach, you might want to have a User Mode set up with;
  • Av Mode
  • High Cont. Burst
  • Jpg Only
  • -0.7 EV (protect highlights)
  • AF.C
  • Back Button Focus
  • 'Change AF Point Button - 2'
  • AF Active Area SEL
  • 1st Frame Action in AF.C - Focus Priority
  • Action in AF.C Cont. - Focus Priority
  • Hold AF Status OFF
  • Contrast Detection Face Detection
  • Contrast AF Options Focus Priority

You'll want to spam plenty, fill that buffer up which is why you want Jpg and not RAW for this. Face Detection would be used for those quicker 'stationary' candid moments, such as kid sitting on teh wall eating Ice Cream (if proficient with this mode it can almost be used like a GRII/III and not even let the kid know shots are being taken.

Like most things success of shots is down to understanding the gear well, practising, experimenting with settings, arguably this will make up for any 'sluggish' AF performance that sits 0.3secs behind another lens for AF lock.
05-25-2019, 04:28 PM - 1 Like   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
Strange and baffling to me hearing folk calling this lens a 'walkabout' lens or a holiday lens etc... I have it as my most used landscape lens as it has stellar IQ... Look at the images a few pages back.

Kids on holiday? Just buy a used 18-55mm kit lens or something similar, the 20-40 Limited is an expensive over-
kill for your needs and might not meet the Sony Canikon AF requirements you might require I.e. The equipment does all the work for you with eyeball tracking 400 AF points etc. etc.
I disagree, entirely. It's a wonderful lens to use on whatever is important to you. You won't regret buying it. Prices are lower than they've been in the past.

05-25-2019, 09:12 PM   #669
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Maybe I came across the wrong way, I know the 20-40 is good for almost anything... What I meant was that it has such stellar image quality that it should not be viewed as a 'casual' lens for the casual photographer (only taking snaps using jpegs). The 20-40 has lovely creamy bokeh, makes 3D images etc. etc. I'm sick of complementing it now LoL

Getting good results mostly depends on the photographer, I have no problems with Pentax AF even with sports/action etc. I'd have no problems I am sure with kids using the 20-40. What I'd be wary of is expecting the equipment to take away the skill required. There is no problem with the IQ as we all know but I have loads of great photos from the 18-55 kit lens also but I'll take the credit for it :P

Jpegs out of camera are a no no for me, simply not good enough for what I do but considering I'd sometimes spend a whole day PPing a single photograph but I know most people maybe don't go to such lengths.

I'm so glad I've every image since getting into DSLR back in 2012 in RAW as I go back and rework these 'negatives'. Jpegs would have been a complete disaster for me (landscape/astro/nature) photographer, hence why I don't like the moniker of a holiday/kids/casual/walkaround being associated with such a stellar lens.
05-26-2019, 01:12 AM   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
Maybe I came across the wrong way, I know the 20-40 is good for almost anything... What I meant was that it has such stellar image quality that it should not be viewed as a 'casual' lens for the casual photographer (only taking snaps using jpegs). The 20-40 has lovely creamy bokeh, makes 3D images etc. etc. I'm sick of complementing it now LoL

Getting good results mostly depends on the photographer, I have no problems with Pentax AF even with sports/action etc. I'd have no problems I am sure with kids using the 20-40. What I'd be wary of is expecting the equipment to take away the skill required. There is no problem with the IQ as we all know but I have loads of great photos from the 18-55 kit lens also but I'll take the credit for it :P

Jpegs out of camera are a no no for me, simply not good enough for what I do but considering I'd sometimes spend a whole day PPing a single photograph but I know most people maybe don't go to such lengths.

I'm so glad I've every image since getting into DSLR back in 2012 in RAW as I go back and rework these 'negatives'. Jpegs would have been a complete disaster for me (landscape/astro/nature) photographer, hence why I don't like the moniker of a holiday/kids/casual/walkaround being associated with such a stellar lens.
Apology accepted

Accept there's nothing wrong with Jpgs, they have their time and place. Yes RAW is best and when possible shoot RAW, but not all photography is about perfecting a single shot, sometimes we must prioritise capturing the right moment over more manoeuvrability in post processing. Toggling into Jpg only gives you 70 odd shots before hitting buffer issues vs 15 or so RAW, it's a numbers games. Whilst the RAW is choked you cannot continue shooting the moment, and don't anyone dare say that you should be more careful with your shots and time better, that is complete and utter bs! You cannot predict the future, you can think you're 'now' in a glorious moment and thus (whilst still in RAW) start upping the intensity of the shots thinking 'this is it!', however fate has other plans and after your smug face reflects thinking you captured the moment.. a new better moment emerges but now you're locked out from taking more shots as you got too trigger happy! You're missing the moment you never thought was going to happen!!

If you haven't been in that situation think yourself lucky, but paid event togs know what I am talking about. Turning the camera into a Jpg machine transforms the camera into a different beast entirely, you just have to know when to make that switch, when is an acceptable time to lose PP room vs capturing the moments. No landscaper should shoot Jpg, not really, not when you have time on your side and want as much dynamic data as possible but that's not the be all and end all of photography.
05-26-2019, 02:10 AM   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Apology accepted

Accept there's nothing wrong with Jpgs, they have their time and place. Yes RAW is best and when possible shoot RAW, but not all photography is about perfecting a single shot, sometimes we must prioritise capturing the right moment over more manoeuvrability in post processing. Toggling into Jpg only gives you 70 odd shots before hitting buffer issues vs 15 or so RAW, it's a numbers games. Whilst the RAW is choked you cannot continue shooting the moment, and don't anyone dare say that you should be more careful with your shots and time better, that is complete and utter bs! You cannot predict the future, you can think you're 'now' in a glorious moment and thus (whilst still in RAW) start upping the intensity of the shots thinking 'this is it!', however fate has other plans and after your smug face reflects thinking you captured the moment.. a new better moment emerges but now you're locked out from taking more shots as you got too trigger happy! You're missing the moment you never thought was going to happen!!

If you haven't been in that situation think yourself lucky, but paid event togs know what I am talking about. Turning the camera into a Jpg machine transforms the camera into a different beast entirely, you just have to know when to make that switch, when is an acceptable time to lose PP room vs capturing the moments. No landscaper should shoot Jpg, not really, not when you have time on your side and want as much dynamic data as possible but that's not the be all and end all of photography.
I did say "for me" jpegs are a no no and mountains have never told me to hurry up, moved quickly or with held any fees

If you need 70 high speed continuous shots so be it but even photographing sports I don't do this, bringing back 1000's of photos to sift through is a nightmare. In landscape shoots I pretend I'm using film so around 30 is OK, I find that is best although I've a lot of experience now, I don't even take a single photo if I know I won't get something.

If I ever do need that huge continuous buffer I know it is there, like another Mt. St.Helens eruption or something

My neighbour is a Nikon shooter and he doesn't know what RAW is, however with no disrespect they are mostly just snaps. He doesn't like computers, PP etc. so fair enough... horses for courses. He also said he doesn't like landscape photography as he can't make it look good, which is a fair point as it is very difficult to be really really good at it. So he enjoys his photography but at the same time can't produce a fine art landscape photo which look really nice in large print.
05-26-2019, 02:23 AM   #672
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
I did say "for me" jpegs are a no no and mountains have never told me to hurry up, moved quickly or with held any fees

If you need 70 high speed continuous shots so be it but even photographing sports I don't do this, bringing back 1000's of photos to sift through is a nightmare. In landscape shoots I pretend I'm using film so around 30 is OK, I find that is best although I've a lot of experience now, I don't even take a single photo if I know I won't get something.

If I ever do need that huge continuous buffer I know it is there, like another Mt. St.Helens eruption or something

My neighbour is a Nikon shooter and he doesn't know what RAW is, however with no disrespect they are mostly just snaps. He doesn't like computers, PP etc. so fair enough... horses for courses. He also said he doesn't like landscape photography as he can't make it look good, which is a fair point as it is very difficult to be really really good at it. So he enjoys his photography but at the same time can't produce a fine art landscape photo which look really nice in large print.
Yeah I don't mind culling, I've found some programs that massively speed that process up, and it's an odd experience when doing weddings and such, if you have taken 4-5 shots of the same scene and let the client choose the image they want they quite often choose them all lol and you make more $$ So sometimes bursting and capturing a moment such as 5-6 frames of some people laughing earns you more money than stressing about which of the 5-6 shots best captures the moment. heh.

But yes agree with you. My interests are spread all over the place and I find the K-1 and KP quite well suited. Yes there are issues such as AF speed, buffer etc, but I work around it, much like I would work around some Canon and Nikon issues as I'm sure they'll have. I always prefer more options than fewer, even if those options I never use or very rarely do.
05-26-2019, 05:19 AM - 1 Like   #673
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Yeah I don't mind culling, I've found some programs that massively speed that process up, and it's an odd experience when doing weddings and such, if you have taken 4-5 shots of the same scene and let the client choose the image they want they quite often choose them all lol and you make more $$ So sometimes bursting and capturing a moment such as 5-6 frames of some people laughing earns you more money than stressing about which of the 5-6 shots best captures the moment. heh.

But yes agree with you. My interests are spread all over the place and I find the K-1 and KP quite well suited. Yes there are issues such as AF speed, buffer etc, but I work around it, much like I would work around some Canon and Nikon issues as I'm sure they'll have. I always prefer more options than fewer, even if those options I never use or very rarely do.
I hate the culling process hence why I try and take 30, maybe something to do with my OCD personality or something and it takes ages PPing on this slow laptop...

For example, I took 412 frames at a marathon 2 weeks ago in 2 hours, some great photos in there, nearly every single one in perfect focus using the K-70 with DA* 60-250 f4 (leaders running at 13mph straight at me using 250mm... the Pentax torture test but without a bicycle ) I would need to only keep about 20 or so but when I start trying to cull them I'm there for a few hours, not enough culled, getting cheesed off so turn computer off and watch rubbish TV instead. There was a political/social aspect to them too you see where the runners were going through the peace gates in the political divided city of Belfast so it isn't just people running... you see what I mean... OCD or a bit like Directive 4 to Robocop where he can't do it LoL...


I would find weddings a nightmare to do for the reasons you say, I have done a few paid concerts and stuff for album covers etc. and enjoyed it. I didn't take 100's either which helped and enjoyed PPing them too. I wouldn't mind doing more of this work just for fun, free tickets and a few goodies but have lost touch with society lately

Anyway getting off topic, I'll try and post a few 20-40 photos later, I've a few nice ones in 2.35:1 format and no I'm not cutting out soft corners, I don't care about neurotic nonsense like that anyway
05-26-2019, 10:34 AM - 1 Like   #674
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Hey again all. Thank you for the great numbers of replies especially nocturnal and BruceBanner. I am always struck the high degree of expert advice in the forum. I especially take on board the number of themese:

The 20-40 lt is not a lens for holiday snaps!
Shooting JPEG is not ideal- ie shooting raw give more level of control
Getting a limited lens is no substitute for technique
AF difficulties may be surmount with understanding the camera setting and practice

I also got the impression Pentax is primarily a landscape shooters brand and sports/action might come second and if the was man mode of shooting other brands might be better. I had known this but was trying to find out the best body/lens combo for the family man who also likes landscape...

I am so happy with the kit, the support from this forum is unparalleled so I am keen to stay with Pentax and choose the right lenses to get the best performance in what I am shooting...which is holiday snaps in the short term but family photographs in the medium to long term, with an emphasis on really stunning photographs to be cherished and along the way develop my photography skills-- otherwise it I would just use my phone!
05-26-2019, 05:14 PM   #675
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QuoteOriginally posted by ubjy Quote
Hey again all. Thank you for the great numbers of replies especially nocturnal and BruceBanner. I am always struck the high degree of expert advice in the forum. I especially take on board the number of themese:

The 20-40 lt is not a lens for holiday snaps!
Shooting JPEG is not ideal- ie shooting raw give more level of control
Getting a limited lens is no substitute for technique
AF difficulties may be surmount with understanding the camera setting and practice

I also got the impression Pentax is primarily a landscape shooters brand and sports/action might come second and if the was man mode of shooting other brands might be better. I had known this but was trying to find out the best body/lens combo for the family man who also likes landscape...

I am so happy with the kit, the support from this forum is unparalleled so I am keen to stay with Pentax and choose the right lenses to get the best performance in what I am shooting...which is holiday snaps in the short term but family photographs in the medium to long term, with an emphasis on really stunning photographs to be cherished and along the way develop my photography skills-- otherwise it I would just use my phone!
Sports action comes last... like 5th place lol. No seriously it is the Achilles heal for Pentax, always has been. Anyone arguing differently just isn't be truthful. People will then proceed to take a nice pan shot of a car going around a race track, or capture a bird in the sky, or horse racing etc. That's fine, there are some things it can do ok at, but there's a reason you won't see a paid professional shoot Pentax at major sporting events such as Soccer, Olympics, Boxing matches etc. Shutter speed, fps, buffer, AF accuracy is what is utterly important for these guys (as well as having contracts where they can easily replace a lens or camera body last minute from any open outlet). They simply buy the right tool for the job.

Where Pentax does do extremely well at is rugged cameras producing incredible IQ. I have known a few Pentax professional photographers who have gone to other systems, and they always say that although they appreciate the convenience of some of the new tricks on more recent camera brands (Sony, Fuji etc), they still have to admit that the IQ of the shots taken with the K-1 gets the edge. I mean it's close but you can actually often tell which shot was taken with a Pentax + FA85 vs other brand and lens combo. But... they are happy to lose 5-10% IQ over other aspects that the other brand camera has instead.

Pentax offers very good value (easily arguably the best), which another side of the argument that often gets left out.

As for Jpg vs Raw, well... have a look at this album; Ironfest 2019 | Flickr

One of those images was taken accidentally as a Jpg, the rest RAW, so one is an imposter! Can you tell which image started out as a Jpg and the rest DNG? Nah... didn't think so. If you get competent with your camera and less likely to stuff up exposure you will find Jpgs can work very well indeed. High end pros use Jpgs (such as those sporting pros), so don't be afraid to utilise them when the situation arises.

I have to laugh, did you see the images of the recent Prince Harry baby going about? The photographer that was hired to take those shots would have been using very high end gear, but the image that graced our aussie network tv's out here was abysmal (looked pixelated beyond belief, like a 240x360 image stretched across 4k screens ahahaha)! Reminds me of the time I did a studio photo session for a client, she needed a head and shoulder shot for her FB business profile page. Took the 36mp shot with the FA77 on the K-1. 40mb DNG file >25mb Jpg finished export which then somehow ended up as a 50kb FB profile pic! ahahahah! <sigh>

---------- Post added 05-27-19 at 10:32 AM ----------




28mm, f8 full frame mode, K-1.
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