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09-17-2010, 12:37 AM - 1 Like   #781
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sherwood, about the repair tips, I guess that's something you would have to search within this forum, cause tinkering
will always be exotic. The best database to search imo is this one: Maintenance & Repairs (Page 1) - Manual Focus Forum

I have had a Jup11 in my hands for a similar price like ovim but let it go, even the older white metal version with
multicoating, really nice. Interestingly, Laurentiu's lens has the aperture ring on the bottom and ovim's on the
top. Would be good to know how many aperture blades each of your lenses have.

But hey, this is the original Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135 design and I already have the white metal CZJ version (4/135 with
blue coating) which is excellent and the superstar MC 3.5/135 version. Not to forget the MC Jupiter 37A 3.5/135,
another copy with a 12-blade aperture and the same Kazan logo as ovim's lens. BTW the first two letters of
the serial most probably tell the year of production, so ovim's lens should be from 1974.

Here's a sample pic from the Jup37A.



Last edited by georgweb; 09-17-2010 at 12:48 AM.
09-17-2010, 03:41 AM   #782
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QuoteOriginally posted by georgweb Quote
sherwood, about the repair tips, I guess that's something you would have to search within this forum, cause tinkering
will always be exotic. The best database to search imo is this one: Maintenance & Repairs (Page 1) - Manual Focus Forum
Thanks for the link ! There are indeed a lot of good infos to find on the Web.

I recently relubed a Mir-1V but didn't found the way to adjust it for focusing a little past infinity. I'll make some search on this forum.

About the repair tips, I thought it would be useful to have a dedicated place to share all those links + our own experimentations.
09-17-2010, 09:24 AM - 1 Like   #783
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QuoteOriginally posted by sherwood Quote
About the repair tips, I thought it would be useful to have a dedicated place to share all those links + our own experimentations.
Allright, the above-mentioned link is my best guess to find exactly that. There is one more section on the net with a similar bearing, Alternative Gear & Lenses - FM Forums. See you there .-)
Georg (always here and very seldom there)
09-17-2010, 10:13 AM   #784
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Thanks once more.

09-17-2010, 12:33 PM   #785
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QuoteOriginally posted by georgweb Quote
Interestingly, Laurentiu's lens has the aperture ring on the bottom and ovim's on the
top. Would be good to know how many aperture blades each of your lenses have.
Actually I'd bet the aperture ring is just next to the filter thread also on Laurentius copy. What you see in that shot is the thread part of the hood he hammered off. It seems that the threads on the hood can be unscrewed from the actual hood part... confusing isn't it

Did you know that this is actually different lens than Jupiter 11? Don't know all the details but 11A focuses to 1m and 11 to 1.2/1.5m (black/silver?). And I don't think there is a silver version of the 11A. Also found these resolution numbers from mflenses.com:

QuoteQuote:
Jupiter 11: 34/19
Jupiter 11A: 43/29
Jupiter 37A: 45/30
Apparently they are the official results from the manufacturers.

btw my copy has 12 aperture blades.
09-17-2010, 02:58 PM   #786
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Thanks for coming back Oula/ovim,
as I have linked before all my wisdom basically comes from here; Jupiter11(A).

I wonder if there are really different lens designs in these models but for sure they do take nice pics all of them .-)
09-17-2010, 09:32 PM   #787
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QuoteOriginally posted by georgweb Quote
Thanks for coming back Oula/ovim,
as I have linked before all my wisdom basically comes from here; Jupiter11(A).

I wonder if there are really different lens designs in these models but for sure they do take nice pics all of them .-)
Oh, I missed the link before. So it seems it's the same design, maybe they just improved the coatings or type of glass or something... And added a mm or two to the focus helicoid to shorten the minimal focusing distance. Anyhow I couldn't be happier with IQ for 10e

09-18-2010, 12:53 AM   #788
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QuoteOriginally posted by ovim Quote
Actually I'd bet the aperture ring is just next to the filter thread also on Laurentius copy. What you see in that shot is the thread part of the hood he hammered off. It seems that the threads on the hood can be unscrewed from the actual hood part... confusing isn't it
Yep, that's it. I think the hood was not screwed up completely, the package was dropped or hit and the hood got pushed on one side over the threads (although I can't imagine the force needed to obtain such result). I tried hard to remove it, as it was covering the lens and it didn't allow me access to either the aperture or focusing ring. Couldn't budge it. Then I tried straightening it by hitting it with a hammer and banging it on the floor - at some point, the hood started to move and it eventually detached from the stuck ring. The fact that the glass didn't break as a result of all this punishment shows how tough these lenses were built. The lens is still usable but the focusing ring is very stiff - I sometimes unscrewed the adapter from my camera while focusing. My copy is from 1973, has 12 aperture blades, and also came with an original certificate stating that the resolution figures were 48.5 lpmm center and 29.1 lpmm peripheral - the numbers were written by hand, so it looks like the lenses were tested individually - pretty neat. Too bad it got damaged so badly in transit - it would have been a mint sample otherwise.
09-23-2010, 06:47 AM   #789
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ANOTHER repair/parts question- well, part is the precise term here!

So picked up a Helios 44M-4 at a garage sale for 10 bux with a zenit 12XP back cap. Lens is in fantastic condition! Shot with it the last few days, so enjoying this lens...

Anyways, shooting yesterday, started to notice some oddities in the focus ring smoothness- fine in the infinity to mid range, but getting closer in, started to notice some "skipping" (where the friction is less) and a bit of tightness. Attribute this to a lens made in 1985 sitting in a closet for years, which I'm now using, and all that old lubricant in the focus mechanism is moving about/globbing/binding here and there.

So, I took it apart to clean. When I say take it apart, I had to go to the point of all mechanical assembly being taken apart, since I didn't know there wasn't a stop to keep the inner lens assembly from coming COMPLETELY out of the outer focus helicoid ring, so that required a complete disassembly of the major mechanicals (I didn't have to touch the aperture mechanism, no oil or problems there!). Hardest part was getting infinity focus back once the whole thing came apart, but finally figured that out, too! Completely cleaned the entire focus mechanism (outer and inner helicoid threads, etc), and re-lubed with pure white lithium grease. Focus mechanism is now perfectly damped and smooth as butter!

Only problem- being extremely careful didn't help, I lost the the tiny little ball bearing that seats into the back of the aperture ring to provide the click stops. I know, I know- it just rolled off the work desk onto the floor, and 1 hour of searching with a flashlight and a magnet just didn't help. Can't find it. For the time being I've put a tiny square of kraft felt inside the ring to give some friction so I can still use the lens, but I'd like to replace this little guy.

I have a 50mm M 1.7 that has a ruined front element, so I pulled that BB out and tried it- a tad too big. I think those ball bearings may be 1.5mm, but not sure- I don't have calipers to measure.

Anybody else had this happen, or have some tiny ball bearings laying about from their own botched repair attempts? I know there is a company that sells these online cheap, but I don't want to order all five sizes. I'd be happy to pay whatever shipping/trouble it would be to send an assortment (say 1, 1.2, 1.5mm) or, if anybody knows the right size, I'll order some!

Thanks!
09-23-2010, 09:06 AM   #790
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QuoteOriginally posted by virgilr Quote
...I know there is a company that sells these online cheap, but I don't want to order all five sizes. I'd be happy to pay whatever shipping/trouble it would be to send an assortment (say 1, 1.2, 1.5mm) or, if anybody knows the right size, I'll order some!

I don't know about your online source, but Micro Tools is pretty reasonable on the pricing:
Micro-Tools Product Search Results
Alternatively, you could go begging to your friendly local camera repair guy.


Steve
09-23-2010, 10:45 AM   #791
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I'm sure 1,5 mm is way too big. Those bearings are probably no more than 1 mm thick and a pain to get back in place when reassembling the lens.
09-23-2010, 12:31 PM   #792
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QuoteOriginally posted by sherwood Quote
I'm sure 1,5 mm is way too big. Those bearings are probably no more than 1 mm thick and a pain to get back in place when reassembling the lens.
That's what I'm thinking- 1 to 1.2mm.

I have a great trick when working with tiny parts/screws- I put just the tiniest dab of lithium grease on the end of the tool which acts as a temporary "glue" to handle the part. Once you get things where they need to be, you can use a q-tip or the like to remove the grease (if you feel the need)- saved my butt when I worked on a repair bench at a small electronics shop for 7 years.. Those old car cassette deck mechanisms (as well as VCR's, etc) were trying to work on, to say the least!
09-24-2010, 11:35 AM   #793
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Something else with the Helios-44...

I had a H-44M for years, when I bought my first DSLR (nearly 4 years ago), a K100D. I didn't often use it with film cameras, mostly because I got better results with the lovely S-Tak 1.8/55. (Burning 35mm film has a cost, and I remember I didn't experiment a lot...)
Of course, the DSLR allowed me playing with lenses at any aperture, so I began having fun with old M42 prime lenses.
My Helios-44M was really soft at its widest apertures, and I thought I had a poor sample. I now own a second 44-M and a 44-M4, and both behave like my first sample.
When playing with my "standard film primes", I noticed my K100D gave me the "focus confirm" info much more quickly with those Helios-44s than with most of my other MF lenses ! It's sometimes beeping repeatedly !
It seems the lens is "fooling" the focus help feature.
Is it a well known issue ?
09-24-2010, 02:01 PM   #794
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I only have a k100DS, and I don't seem to be having this issue- I also find the Helios very tolerably sharp wide open. I'm wondering if the softness you are seeing is purely due to OOF? I know that until I dropped in the KatzEye, I was very frustrated with getting decent focus, even with the M 50mm f/1.7.

This is my first modded M42 mount- getting used to the split darkening with the KatzEye at f/5.6 and beyond..
09-24-2010, 05:31 PM   #795
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QuoteOriginally posted by sherwood Quote
...Is it a well known issue ?
It is not really an issue. That is what happens when using focus confirm when there is limited DOF.

As regards the softness issue, your Helios should have excellent center sharpness at all apertures with softness in the corners wide open. That is a design feature that it shares with the Zeiss Biotar on which it is based. On APS-C the corner softness is a minor issue. At least it is with the 44M on my K10D.


Steve
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