The Mirror Lens Club!

reeftool · 09-30-2009, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Yeah, it occurs to me that my comment in the Rayox club applies here too: shooting digital, we have the luxury of tossing a lot of unsucessful images with nothing lost. Indeed, we gain quite a bit of experience in shooting so much. With that in mind, the poor reputation mirror lenses had among many film user is totally understandable. Of course, the fact that many don't stand up well to 100% crops can give them a bad rap with digital too. But as the pictures on this thread show, they really can do very cool things.

As I am quite new to the mirror I am finding that for the most part it takes a little patience and practice to learn how to use it and also the lighting conditions where it will work. What I find frustrating right now is that since I have received my lens it has been dark, cloudy and downright miserable so it sits in my bag. I'm hoping for at least one sunny day before the fall foliage is all gone.

The box my lens came in labels it as a "macro". In the instructions it list the minimum focusing distance as 12 feet with a depth of field of 1/2 inch. I found trying to get a good focus at that distance next to impossible for me. I have found distance shots a little easier but still require precision focusing. I have just about as much focusing difficulty with my 200mm Tak with the 2x converter so I think the practice issue stands for all manual focus long lenses, not just mirrors. How quickly we all became spoiled by autofucus!

Marc Sabatella · 09-30-2009, 10:23 AM

I forget if you said which lens you got. The Samyang-made lenses describe themselves as macro, and indeed it does focus reaosnably close, but it is just unusably soft at those distances. It begins to get usably (if not impressively) sharp around maybe, oh, 10 meters? I've read that it is difficult to design a mirror lens to produce good results at both near and far focus distances, so they usually sacrifice the near to produce better results far. This is where the Tamron shots really impress me; it seems to be capable of doing amazingly well at any distance.

ivoire · 09-30-2009, 10:34 AM

A test shot with the Russian ZM-5A-MC MTO 500mm lens M42

glasbak · 09-30-2009, 11:18 AM

A not very recent shot with one of my mirror lenses.
Full K10D (10Mpixel) picture

Its full resolution, because what is to the right is a bit tiny.

MattGunn · 09-30-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by glasbak

A not very recent shot with one of my mirror lenses.

Its full resolution, because what is to the right is a bit tiny.

Fantastic! Were these really together or did you edit Saturn in? Im only asking as the moon is usually a lot brighter than Saturn. What mirror lens was this taken with?

glasbak · 09-30-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by MattGunn

Fantastic! Were these really together or did you edit Saturn in? Im only asking as the moon is usually a lot brighter than Saturn. What mirror lens was this taken with?

This was 2007-may-22, saturn popped behind the moon, and I was just too late.
No, I hate photo's where moon etc. are added, horrible !
The optics are a home build contraption, a 'kutter' or 'Schiefspiegler'.
See here for building instructions.

MattGunn · 09-30-2009, 12:25 PM

Impressive. Any pictures of the finished contraption? What is the mirror size and F number? Did you make the mirror youself?
I started hand grinding a 6" f/8 telescope mirror about a year ago. I got the roughing out and first stage of fine grinding done in about 6 weeks of lunch breaks but got sidetracked and havent found the motivation to get back to it yet.

Last edited by MattGunn; 09-30-2009 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Dyslexia

glasbak · 09-30-2009, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by MattGunn

Impressive. Any pictures of the finished contraption? What is the mirror size and F number? Did you make the mirror youself?
I started hand grinding a 6" f/8 telescope mirror about a year ago. I got the roughing out and first stage of fine grinding done in about 6 weeks of lunch breaks but got sidetracked and havent found the motivation to get back to it yet.

I don't have a picture, the mirror is 10cm, F 1:27. I have grinded my own telescope mirrors, but not this one. Got it from someone else who made it in his youth, and was now only collecting dust.

And it is time to finish your own mirror, nothing beats the satisfaction of looking at the heavens with a telescope you made yourself !

MattGunn · 09-30-2009, 12:45 PM

It is on my list of things to do! Once I have compleated it I haver two old spherical mirrors I managed to obtian to to re-figure. These may need a machine though as they are 24" and 38" diameter so will require a LOT of work. I think it will be along time before these are done though.

MattGunn · 10-01-2009, 12:42 PM - **1 Like**

A recent shot from the Tamron 55BB

User Photo Gallery - Nature
Taken whilst trying to enjoy my lunch in peace.

Marc Sabatella · 10-01-2009, 10:37 PM - **1 Like**

Here's another from my Vivitar 500/8:

reeftool · 10-03-2009, 09:00 PM

I shot this earlier today with the Opteka 500/f8 on the St. Lawrence River. I think the results are acceptable or about what I am getting with crops on my Sigma 70-300. I do need to get or make a lens hood for this lens as I had a lot of shots with a somewhat washed out look but only at certain angles to the boats. It was mostly fixable in PP. Out of around 75 shots I only deleted about 10. I probably should have used the Sigma zoom as 500mm was a little too much for this distance but I'm a boy with a new toy and just had to try it out.

ivoire · 10-04-2009, 05:20 PM

Has anyone ever tried a monocular convereter on their mirror lens? B&H has a Pentax clone for $40and I was wondering how well it would work as a spotting scope. I'm about to visit florida for a few weeks of sun.

MattGunn · 10-05-2009, 12:25 PM

I haven't tried a commercial one but I made a T mount eyepiece from an old Tasco telescope erecting prism and an old T mount. I can use it with one of several cheap telescope eyepieces but at present it is fitted with an old microscope eyepiece. It actually workes remarkably well - your eye is much more forgiving of poor sharpness and contrast then film of digital sensors. I imagine that a commercial one will give better image quality than my lash up so if you want a spotting scope it's probably worth a try. Also if you intend to take your mirror lens with you anyway then you have a spotting scope for almost no additional weight.

ivoire · 10-05-2009, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by MattGunn

I haven't tried a commercial one but I made a T mount eyepiece from an old Tasco telescope erecting prism and an old T mount. I can use it with one of several cheap telescope eyepieces but at present it is fitted with an old microscope eyepiece. It actually workes remarkably well - your eye is much more forgiving of poor sharpness and contrast then film of digital sensors. I imagine that a commercial one will give better image quality than my lash up so if you want a spotting scope it's probably worth a try. Also if you intend to take your mirror lens with you anyway then you have a spotting scope for almost no additional weight.

Thats pretty creative and i'm glad to hear that it works well. I hadn't thought of using it with my gorilla pod, so you've given me another idea. I sold my tamron as i have one of the russian 500mm lenses. It is about 3x the weight of the tamron.

09-30-2009, 10:34 AM	#153
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	A test shot with the Russian ZM-5A-MC MTO 500mm lens M42 Last edited by ivoire; 11-03-2010 at 08:44 PM.

10-03-2009, 09:00 PM	#162
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	I shot this earlier today with the Opteka 500/f8 on the St. Lawrence River. I think the results are acceptable or about what I am getting with crops on my Sigma 70-300. I do need to get or make a lens hood for this lens as I had a lot of shots with a somewhat washed out look but only at certain angles to the boats. It was mostly fixable in PP. Out of around 75 shots I only deleted about 10. I probably should have used the Sigma zoom as 500mm was a little too much for this distance but I'm a boy with a new toy and just had to try it out. Last edited by reeftool; 07-20-2010 at 08:37 AM.

10-04-2009, 05:20 PM	#163
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Has anyone ever tried a monocular convereter on their mirror lens? B&H has a Pentax clone for $40and I was wondering how well it would work as a spotting scope. I'm about to visit florida for a few weeks of sun. Last edited by ivoire; 11-03-2010 at 08:44 PM.

10-05-2009, 12:25 PM	#164
MattGunn Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 347	I haven't tried a commercial one but I made a T mount eyepiece from an old Tasco telescope erecting prism and an old T mount. I can use it with one of several cheap telescope eyepieces but at present it is fitted with an old microscope eyepiece. It actually workes remarkably well - your eye is much more forgiving of poor sharpness and contrast then film of digital sensors. I imagine that a commercial one will give better image quality than my lash up so if you want a spotting scope it's probably worth a try. Also if you intend to take your mirror lens with you anyway then you have a spotting scope for almost no additional weight. Attached Images

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09-30-2009, 10:09 AM	#151
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Yeah, it occurs to me that my comment in the Rayox club applies here too: shooting digital, we have the luxury of tossing a lot of unsucessful images with nothing lost. Indeed, we gain quite a bit of experience in shooting so much. With that in mind, the poor reputation mirror lenses had among many film user is totally understandable. Of course, the fact that many don't stand up well to 100% crops can give them a bad rap with digital too. But as the pictures on this thread show, they really can do very cool things. As I am quite new to the mirror I am finding that for the most part it takes a little patience and practice to learn how to use it and also the lighting conditions where it will work. What I find frustrating right now is that since I have received my lens it has been dark, cloudy and downright miserable so it sits in my bag. I'm hoping for at least one sunny day before the fall foliage is all gone. The box my lens came in labels it as a "macro". In the instructions it list the minimum focusing distance as 12 feet with a depth of field of 1/2 inch. I found trying to get a good focus at that distance next to impossible for me. I have found distance shots a little easier but still require precision focusing. I have just about as much focusing difficulty with my 200mm Tak with the 2x converter so I think the practice issue stands for all manual focus long lenses, not just mirrors. How quickly we all became spoiled by autofucus!

09-30-2009, 10:23 AM	#152
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685 Original Poster	I forget if you said which lens you got. The Samyang-made lenses describe themselves as macro, and indeed it does focus reaosnably close, but it is just unusably soft at those distances. It begins to get usably (if not impressively) sharp around maybe, oh, 10 meters? I've read that it is difficult to design a mirror lens to produce good results at both near and far focus distances, so they usually sacrifice the near to produce better results far. This is where the Tamron shots really impress me; it seems to be capable of doing amazingly well at any distance.

09-30-2009, 11:18 AM	#154
glasbak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Netherlands Posts: 369	A not very recent shot with one of my mirror lenses. Full K10D (10Mpixel) picture Its full resolution, because what is to the right is a bit tiny.

09-30-2009, 11:43 AM	#155
MattGunn Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 347	Originally posted by glasbak A not very recent shot with one of my mirror lenses. Its full resolution, because what is to the right is a bit tiny. Fantastic! Were these really together or did you edit Saturn in? Im only asking as the moon is usually a lot brighter than Saturn. What mirror lens was this taken with?

09-30-2009, 12:04 PM	#156
glasbak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Netherlands Posts: 369	Originally posted by MattGunn Fantastic! Were these really together or did you edit Saturn in? Im only asking as the moon is usually a lot brighter than Saturn. What mirror lens was this taken with? This was 2007-may-22, saturn popped behind the moon, and I was just too late. No, I hate photo's where moon etc. are added, horrible ! The optics are a home build contraption, a 'kutter' or 'Schiefspiegler'. See here for building instructions.

09-30-2009, 12:25 PM	#157
MattGunn Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 347	Impressive. Any pictures of the finished contraption? What is the mirror size and F number? Did you make the mirror youself? I started hand grinding a 6" f/8 telescope mirror about a year ago. I got the roughing out and first stage of fine grinding done in about 6 weeks of lunch breaks but got sidetracked and havent found the motivation to get back to it yet. Last edited by MattGunn; 09-30-2009 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Dyslexia

09-30-2009, 12:41 PM	#158
glasbak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Netherlands Posts: 369	Originally posted by MattGunn Impressive. Any pictures of the finished contraption? What is the mirror size and F number? Did you make the mirror youself? I started hand grinding a 6" f/8 telescope mirror about a year ago. I got the roughing out and first stage of fine grinding done in about 6 weeks of lunch breaks but got sidetracked and havent found the motivation to get back to it yet. I don't have a picture, the mirror is 10cm, F 1:27. I have grinded my own telescope mirrors, but not this one. Got it from someone else who made it in his youth, and was now only collecting dust. And it is time to finish your own mirror, nothing beats the satisfaction of looking at the heavens with a telescope you made yourself !

09-30-2009, 12:45 PM	#159
MattGunn Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 347	It is on my list of things to do! Once I have compleated it I haver two old spherical mirrors I managed to obtian to to re-figure. These may need a machine though as they are 24" and 38" diameter so will require a LOT of work. I think it will be along time before these are done though.

10-01-2009, 12:42 PM - 1 Like	#160
MattGunn Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 347	A recent shot from the Tamron 55BB User Photo Gallery - Nature Taken whilst trying to enjoy my lunch in peace.

10-01-2009, 10:37 PM - 1 Like	#161
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685 Original Poster	Here's another from my Vivitar 500/8:

10-05-2009, 04:20 PM	#165
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Originally posted by MattGunn I haven't tried a commercial one but I made a T mount eyepiece from an old Tasco telescope erecting prism and an old T mount. I can use it with one of several cheap telescope eyepieces but at present it is fitted with an old microscope eyepiece. It actually workes remarkably well - your eye is much more forgiving of poor sharpness and contrast then film of digital sensors. I imagine that a commercial one will give better image quality than my lash up so if you want a spotting scope it's probably worth a try. Also if you intend to take your mirror lens with you anyway then you have a spotting scope for almost no additional weight. Thats pretty creative and i'm glad to hear that it works well. I hadn't thought of using it with my gorilla pod, so you've given me another idea. I sold my tamron as i have one of the russian 500mm lenses. It is about 3x the weight of the tamron.