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06-02-2013, 07:09 PM   #511
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Hello,

Fresdorf your last photo is very good.
Better than the others photos you posted first.
You're on the good way now, for beautiful macros you need to practise a lot.
It's the only way to do, take and take photos.

By using photoshop you can get better looking for your photos.
The work with photoshop is the other great part of working for beautiful photos.
The first work is to take photos in a good way as you done with the fly at 300 mm f/11.

If you want a greater magnification, first try to shoot with DCR-250 instead to change you gear.
Take a look at the photos of valy.
We see LOCAs but only on the photo crop, on the other you can't see LOCAs because it's a very little LOCAs.

Now you're ok, you don't need to post more photos, just point and shoot.
From time to time post some of your most beautiful photos as i could see on your 500px.com photo online space.

06-02-2013, 11:34 PM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I don't agree with much of what Octopussy said. Small apertures are a necessity for getting reasonable DOF. The Sigma 70-300 APO is known to be softer at 300mm, but has the best control of fringing in its class. There are many examples in this thread showing great results with the 55/70-300mm class of lens.

Fresdorf, keep working on your technique. The gear is good enough for your purposes. You don't always need to go to maximum zoom. Set your lens to infinity focus, use the zoom ring to vary magnification, rock your torso back and forth to achieve focus. With the DCR-150 mounted, you will get 1:1 magnification at approximately 200mm. It's tougher to get good results as magnification increases. Another thing to experiment with is adding light. Even the onboard flash can help, as long as you soften it.
I agree with audiobomber on this. I think shooting bigger apertures is "best" way to go. Not that you can not get good results. But the DOF can be a problem.

Personally I shoot beyond f16 to f22. Yes there is possiblity for diffraction, but I dont think you have to worry about it even at f16. I have seen pros use f32 and I wonder how can they shoot at such a small aperture and not worry about diffraction.

I even asked this question on this thread. Apparently its what you are trying to look for and what is more important. Some people might not even see the diffraction.

I also use a tamron 70-300 with a raynox 150. The tamron is the same as the sigma. I even think the sigma is better than the tamron, as the tamron has severe CA issues.
06-04-2013, 05:00 PM   #513
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Hello,

which tamron 70-300 model ?
The LD Di macro or the SP Di VC USD ?
The tamron is mount on a APS-C or fullframe sensor ?

The LD Di macro get more CAs and IQ is up to 50% less than the SP Di VC USD model.
With APS-C sensor you get less CAs than fullframe sensor if you shoot using the SP Di VC USD model.
The price for a LD Di macro isd about 150€ and 300€ for the SP Di VC USD.
So everybody can understand that the LD Di macro give to the user lower quality photography.

Shoot with high apertures give you more DOF, of course !
But how many more DOF can you get ?
What is the amount of DOF you gain when you close more the diaphragm ?
A little more than F/11 or F/16, not a so great gain of DOF.

What about the fall down of the IQ with high aperture ?
How many IQ you lose with aperture as F/20 or F/32 ?
The greatest IQ is in the range F/8.0-F/11 or for some lens up to F/16.

Fresdorf was in trouble to get sharp photos with his gear.
Macro is not a priority, a first choice for him.

In case of take photo with high aperture (f/16, f/20, f/32...) you need to use a ringflash or a sync cable flash or also a radio transmitter to use your flash out of shoe.
Because to light in a good way the subject in macrophoto is one of your first priority.
Good lightning prevent you from use high ISO and avoid high level digital noise.
A darker image get more noise than a lighter image, you must light more your subject with high aperture.

I don't think so Fresdorf will be agree to buy more stuff to take macro photo.
A greater macro ratio by using DCR-250/MSN 202 or shooting with a long focal (300 mm) is not an other important point for him.
He just want to get sharper image and not greater DOF.
So he must go on the field and take photos with high and lower aperture.
Take photos with small and high macro ratio.
He'll can see what is the best choice for him.

And the last thing to remember, many great photos are post processed with photoshop from a raw file.
These photos are not JPEG direct from camera.
Many others photos are 'build' by stack compilation, you get a big great DOF.
06-05-2013, 08:12 AM   #514
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Thanks again Octopussy, by the way i do have a cheap ring flash, unfortunately, it doesn't sinc with my camera fully so i have to use it just in light mode, i have done this in my last picture and some others that i have posted in another page. If you like you can check it out .. its in my signature.
Anyway thank you a lot guys for helping me understand and go forward with macro photography. i hope to improve in time, maybe my equipment will also improve but at the moment ... there is no better choice than to Shoot shoot shoot and shoot

Thanks again and have a lucky shot guys

06-05-2013, 10:20 PM   #515
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fresdorf Quote
Thanks again Octopussy, by the way i do have a cheap ring flash, unfortunately, it doesn't sinc with my camera fully so i have to use it just in light mode, i have done this in my last picture and some others that i have posted in another page. If you like you can check it out .. its in my signature.
Anyway thank you a lot guys for helping me understand and go forward with macro photography. i hope to improve in time, maybe my equipment will also improve but at the moment ... there is no better choice than to Shoot shoot shoot and shoot

Thanks again and have a lucky shot guys
I saw your shots and they are really nice. Certainly better than what I have achieved.

You should post more of them here. But I also see that you are shooting a D3100. Hmmmmmm

Kidding. Welcome to the thread. We dont discrimnate.
06-06-2013, 03:10 PM   #516
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Hello,

Fresdorf does your cheap ring flash get a HSS mode ?
If it don't, you can only use it at sync flash speed of your camera.

The sync flash speed of pentax camera it's 1/180.
So a ring flash that doesn't get a HSS mode, with a pentax camera you can only work at 1/180 or slower speed.

Your D3100 get a sync flash speed of 1/200.
So without HSS mode you can only work with 1/200 or slower speed.

Did you try to work with manual mode.
In this way you must choose the power of the lightning.
It can be, not easier for you, but better for the quality of your lightning.

For a better gear you can use some of them :

takumar 50 f/1.4
SMC 50 f/1.7 - f/1.8
pentacon 135 f/2.8
superTAK 135 f/2.8
superTAK 105 f/2.8
helios 44M 58 f/2
etc... etc... etc...

with macro extension tubes.
Or as reversed lens, you have already use this way to work, i see some of your photo taken in this way.
Or again an old M42 macro lens with a TC or extension tube to get the 1:1 ratio.

M42 lenses can be cheap and get very good IQ if you close beyond f/4 or f/5.6.
Some of them are not cheap at all but the cheap lenses are very good.

Take a look at the flickr stream of john hallmen.
He get terrible photos with old lenses, his photo stacks are astonishing.

johnhallmen's photosets on Flickr

My (old) Macro Rig | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
9 lenses at 2.5X | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Setup... | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Modular Macro Diffuser | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Don't worry, my first proxi/macro photos were not terrible at all.
They were ugly, your shoots posted here ar really better than my first shoots.
I delete all of them and only keep the photos really good.
You need a lot of practise as we did to get better photos.

Here with 18-55mm kit and raynox mounted on a K-x
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/insecterra/_IGP0087.jpg
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/insecterra/_IGP0090.jpg
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/insecterra/_IGP0092.jpg
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/insecterra/_IGP0097.jpg

Here with sigma 105 mm macro and dcr-250 or MSN-202
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/pentaxforum/_IGP5725.jpg
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/pentaxforum/_IGP5709.jpg
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/pentaxforum/_IGP5675.jpg
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/pentaxforum/_IGP5689.jpg (just the 105)

Here with sigma 105 macro + tc (1.5x) + raynox
http://octopussy.fr.free.fr/pentaxone/_IGP2638-800.jpg

Last edited by octopussy_france; 06-06-2013 at 07:44 PM.
07-11-2013, 03:15 PM   #517
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I just ordered the DCR-250 and hope to be able to contribute to this thread again. I had the 150 but it was too heavy for my longest lens to use it. I sold that one a year or two ago.
07-12-2013, 04:23 PM   #518
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Hello,

the dcr-250 is heavier than the dcr-150.
The dcr-250 is about 2.1 oz and the dcr-150 about 1.8 oz.
The size is the same for the both lenses, lens construction too.
The only change is the magnification 8 dioptries vs 4.8 dioptries.

07-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #519
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean the diopter was too heavy, I meant the lens I was using was and I wanted the DCR-250 to use with smaller and lighter lenses. There are arguements here that one can use the DCR-150 on smaller focal lengths but when I was questioning which one I should buy, I was told the DCR-150 was for longer length lenses, and the DCR-250 was for shorter focal lengths.
07-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #520
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The dcr-250 get 8 dioptries, so the magnification is higher.
Higher magnification gives you smaller dof and a minimal distance to focus that is shorter.
It's easier to use the dcr-250 with short focal length lenses than to use it with long focal length lenses.
The trouble is the smaller dof, dof will be thin and thin again... as you use higher magnification.
I never used the dcr-250 or the dcr-150 with long focal length lenses.
Why ?
I was in a big trouble with the thin dof each time i tried to use high magnification.
Now i only use my dcr-150/250 and msn 202 for hyper macro with my sigma 50/105 mm macro lenses.

If you need to know more about raynox with macro lenses, i can take and up some photos.
I get sigma big diameter front lens now and cannot use no more my raynox as macro 'added lens'.
The front diameter lens must be 67 mm max or you need to use ring adapter.
07-15-2013, 12:09 PM   #521
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Raynox MSN-505

A friend of mine sent me an MSN-505 for free. I had been wanting to try out the 202 or the 505 for awhile but I didn't know if it would work as well as the 250 on my 100mm WR so I wasn't going to chuck out the cash for it. Even if it did work well, I primarily shoot hand-held so I figured it still wouldn't work well for that. I did take out for a spin the other day while attempting to shoot without the use of a tripod. It is quite rough for sure. I will primarily be using it for stacking but here a few shots (The first three) I pulled off with it when shooting by hand using the K-5IIs body. Only the second one was cropped I believe. The rest were frame filling. Though I may want to go back and check. It has been a couple of days.

The fourth shot is of the stacking bench I just setup for it. After I get done with what I need to do on the farm today, I will grab some subject to stack away on.

Last night I tried it out on a cocoon using the DCR 250 and went way overboard in stacking 325 shots of this crystalis.

DOF is an issue that we all know about. Razor thin with this thing for sure. Also getting my external flash in the right position due to lack of working room is really rough. It can be done though.

I do not suppose anyone knows off the top of their head what the magnification is when the lens is fully stretched to 1:1 with that diopter on? If not then do not sweat it. I just have been too lazy to figure it out or to snap a shot of a ruler. lol
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07-16-2013, 07:23 AM   #522
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Hello,

Phosphene you have the right gear to work hypermacrophoto.
You lack of light diffuser for your flash guns.
Some people use only continuous light as low power led lightning with diffuser.
To know more about good working in hypermacro or microphotography i recommend you to go on specialized forums.

The big trouble with raynox lenses is not only the thin DOF but also the distance front of lens to subject.
This distance is closer using raynox lens, as closest as the dioptries go up.
The higher dioptries you get, the closest the distance is.

People who work in stacking photography use instead of raynox lens a bellow focus.

Here you can find calculation for teleobjective lenses with TC, extension tubes, dioptries lenses...

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ripolini/Close_up.pdf

Or go here on this thread :

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/130066-how-cal...tion-rate.html

Here the gear of john hallmen on flickr :

Gear - a set on Flickr


EDIT :

I forget it but nice photos.
07-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #523
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I shot this, this morning with a Pentax 50mm M lens and the Raynox DCR-250: F stop 22.



I do have other lenses I want to try this on but the 50 was on the camera and I thought, why not?!

I do see what you mean about DOF though. Hard to get very much, but I never shoot below f8 if possible.
07-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by octopussy_france Quote
Hello,

Phosphene you have the right gear to work hypermacrophoto.
You lack of light diffuser for your flash guns.
Some people use only continuous light as low power led lightning with diffuser.
To know more about good working in hypermacro or microphotography i recommend you to go on specialized forums.

The big trouble with raynox lenses is not only the thin DOF but also the distance front of lens to subject.
This distance is closer using raynox lens, as closest as the dioptries go up.
The higher dioptries you get, the closest the distance is.

People who work in stacking photography use instead of raynox lens a bellow focus.

Here you can find calculation for teleobjective lenses with TC, extension tubes, dioptries lenses...

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ripolini/Close_up.pdf

Or go here on this thread :

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/130066-how-cal...tion-rate.html

Here the gear of john hallmen on flickr :

Gear - a set on Flickr


EDIT :

I forget it but nice photos.
Yeah I plan on getting a bellows and enlarger lenses or microscope objectives here soon. Just shooting and stacking with what I have laying around.

I plan on getting LED lighting since I do not want to burn up my flash doing photo stacks. I have read on specialized microphotography forums and I am always looking on ebay for some good enlarger lenses. I'd really like to get a 63mm luminar but they are pretty expensive.

My plans are from being able to go up to 15x within this next year.

I was just posting these shots since I was messing around with raynox diopters. Just showing what is possible since that is what this thread is about. Plus I got that MSN-505 for free so I might as well play with it right? lol

Thank you very much for the information. Here is a photo stack I played around with last night of a horse fly. 113 photos at F8 using the MSN 505 and the 100mm WR. I stopped the stack after awhile when I saw how badly this fly's eyes were. I only cropped just a small amount over to the left. This was shot at full extension of the 100mm lens or minimal focal length.
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07-16-2013, 10:16 PM - 1 Like   #525
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Phosphene that is some wicked gear you have there. And stacking 325 shots together, How long did it take your machine to process that

Anyway, I have been trying to find subjects to shoot but cant find anything interesting in this part of the world. A couple of days ago I managed to get this mosquito resting.


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