The tilt shift lens club

MattGunn · 03-10-2010, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by kkado

Sorry to cross-post a little, but I really want to see more DIY tilt-shift stuff take off...

Nothing wrong with cross posting, please keep showing us the results. As tilt shift stuff is quite expensive, DIY tilt shift is definately the way to go. Your sucess with FF slr lenses is well worth showing off as there is a popular opinion that tilt shift won't work without medium or large format lenses. Your results go to show that popular opinion is wrong. Plese keep up the good work and show off your developments.

Originally posted by tuco

I don't know if this counts because it is inherent to the camera. But this was front lens tilt for focus across the top and rear film plane tilt to make the lens more round.
Wisner, Caltar-S II MC 210mm f5.6, Kodak Portra 160VC, Jobo C-41 Press Kit

How much tilt did you use on the film & lens respectively?
Do you setup your large format camera by calculation or trial and error?
With SLRs and DSLRs, tilt usually appears to be used to put much of the image out of focus (for minature effects ets) but with large format it is used to put most of the image in focus and control distortion. Your shot shows clearly how effective this can be, a very LBA inducing shot

Would you care to show us a photo of the camera you took this with?

Originally posted by Clicker

Anyone use either the MC35 or 80 T/S K or M42 from Zenitar?

I believe Rense recently got the 35mm Arsat tilt lens, was this what you meant?
A thread with some results was started here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/90885-some-fir...5mm-2-8-a.html

tuco · 03-10-2010, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by MattGunn

How much tilt did you use on the film & lens respectively?
Do you setup your large format camera by calculation or trial and error?
With SLRs and DSLRs, tilt usually appears to be used to put much of the image out of focus (for minature effects ets) but with large format it is used to put most of the image in focus and control distortion. Your shot shows clearly how effective this can be, a very LBA inducing shot

Would you care to show us a photo of the camera you took this with?

I can't tell you exactly how much I tilted because this is a field camera without the degree marks you find on studio mono rails. But I tilted the front standard to the max of the image circle of the lens. You can see when you've reached this point. And the image circle coverage is a function of how much you tilt the rear standard too.

You look at the ground glass with a magnified loupe for focus. You can see what is in and out of focus though that becomes harder when you stop way down in a depth of field preview in low light. I use a light meter and gray card for this type of work; otherwise, a one-degree spot meter. I only took two shots of it so not much trial and error. The shot could have used an additional stop. It is a bit out of focus on the rim of the lens near the bottom.

This shot of the camera is with a economical Schneider 120mm APO lens. The Caltar-S II 210mm mentioned in the picture is way larger and looks better on the camera and is really a Schneider lens rebranded.

tuco · 03-10-2010, 01:56 PM

Here is a case of adjusting the front standard by a rotation and tilt until I was satisfied I got both the front of the subject and its reflection in focus.

Wisner 4x5 TF, Caltar-S II MC 210mm f5.6, Portra 160VC, Jobo C-41 Press Kit

Clicker · 03-10-2010, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by MattGunn

I believe Rense recently got the 35mm Arsat tilt lens, was this what you meant?
A thread with some results was started here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/90885-some-fir...5mm-2-8-a.html

Thanks matt, i read that link but i was referring to user experience with these for reference sake of future LBA

(they come in K mount too)

MC 35 mm Tilt & Shift M42 lens
MC 80 mm Tilt & Shift M42 lens

panoguy · 03-10-2010, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by MattGunn

With SLRs and DSLRs, tilt usually appears to be used to put much of the image out of focus (for minature effects ets) but with large format it is used to put most of the image in focus and control distortion.

Actually, my sole reason for getting into tilt photography is to put as much of image in focus at wider apertures as I can, for landscapes. I actually see the "selective focus effect" of an extreme tilt as more of a "glorified lensbaby effect" which is nice, but not what I got the lens and adapters for. Heck, I got Stroebel's "View Camera Techniques" for Christmas and have actually read some of it!

Not an expert by any means, but these hand-held practice shots illustrate my efforts (I was "focusing" on the sign in the foreground, at the bottom of the frame):

No tilt (50mm Flektogon @ f/5.6):

~5 deg. tilt down (50mm Flektogon @ f/5.6):

**Note how the deck boards are not in focus in the second shot until quite a ways out, but the tops of the railings are? It's a "wedge-shaped focus area" alright!

_

SquintyEyes · 03-11-2010, 09:49 AM

Great illustration. But it's not an exactly apple-to-apple comparison since the bird is missing in the tilted picture.

It's too bad that for Pentax users there isn't a really wide perspective-control lens. 35mm seems to be the widest rectilinear option there is. It's one of the (rare) cases where Canon has a clear advantage. Full-frame body with the 17mm would be amazing. But for the price of that rig one might as well go full out with a LF field camera, or a baby-technika, or a GX680.

tuco · 03-11-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by panoguy

I actually see the "selective focus effect" of an extreme tilt as more of a "glorified lensbaby effect" which is nice, but not what I got the lens and adapters for

I have a Lensbaby 3G for my Pentax 67. It is not the same as the creative and interesting selective focus you can do with rotate/shit/tilt setups. The Lensbaby is a simple double lens with a curved field that just moves the sweet spot around.

Blue · 03-11-2010, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by tuco

I have a Lensbaby 3G for my Pentax 67. It is not the same as the creative and interesting selective focus you can do with rotate/shit/tilt setups. The Lensbaby is a simple double lens with a curved field that just moves the sweet spot around.

. . .

Blue · 03-11-2010, 10:31 AM

On a serious note, I know everyone is interested in wide lenses because the shift feature is very useful in architecture imaging. However, for the miniature effect using tilt, it seems like 50mm to 80mm lenses would be good.

stevebrot · 03-11-2010, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Clicker

Anyone use either the MC35 or 80 T/S K or M42 from Zenitar?

The MC 35 TS and MC 80 TS are Arax lenses made by Arsenal in Kiev. They are supposed to be pretty decent and the optics were used in the Hartblei Super-Rotator.

Steve

Nick Siebers · 03-11-2010, 08:34 PM

I have a Pentacon 6 --> K tilt adapter, and use on it a MIR 45mm f/3.5 Russian lens. It isn't quite as wide as I would like, is big and heavy, and not multi-coated so flares like crazy. But, it is about as cheaply as I could try tilt lens shooting without being very handy in a DIY way.

Showing the effect:

And "miniaturization":

Little Children

Size comparison with DA 40:

panoguy · 03-12-2010, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by SquintyEyes

Great illustration. But it's not an exactly apple-to-apple comparison since the bird is missing in the tilted picture.

stevebrot · 03-12-2010, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Now why did you have to go and post this picture of your beautiful field camera. Do you have any idea the degree of CBA that may be ignited in those of us that are susceptible? I have spent the last 24 hours drooling over similar hunks of wood and brass. Cruel I say...cruel indeed!

Steve

**barondla** · 03-13-2010, 09:01 AM

Matt Gun, would love to see a pic of the lens mount of the adapted Olympus 35 shift lens.
thanks
barondla
might try it myself.

tuco · 03-13-2010, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Now why did you have to go and post this picture of your beautiful field camera. Do you have any idea the degree of CBA that may be ignited in those of us that are susceptible? I have spent the last 24 hours drooling over similar hunks of wood and brass. Cruel I say...cruel indeed!

Steve

Because I was asked to

I use to have a studio mono rail years ago and traded in for this because I was doing more outdoor shots and this is easier to carry around. It is a challenge to shoot one and there are a 101 ways you can mess up a shot. Today, used lenses for these are cheaper than ever if you avoid the super large image circle architecture lenses and shoot BW.

03-10-2010, 01:48 PM	#17
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,027	Originally posted by MattGunn How much tilt did you use on the film & lens respectively? Do you setup your large format camera by calculation or trial and error? With SLRs and DSLRs, tilt usually appears to be used to put much of the image out of focus (for minature effects ets) but with large format it is used to put most of the image in focus and control distortion. Your shot shows clearly how effective this can be, a very LBA inducing shot Would you care to show us a photo of the camera you took this with? I can't tell you exactly how much I tilted because this is a field camera without the degree marks you find on studio mono rails. But I tilted the front standard to the max of the image circle of the lens. You can see when you've reached this point. And the image circle coverage is a function of how much you tilt the rear standard too. You look at the ground glass with a magnified loupe for focus. You can see what is in and out of focus though that becomes harder when you stop way down in a depth of field preview in low light. I use a light meter and gray card for this type of work; otherwise, a one-degree spot meter. I only took two shots of it so not much trial and error. The shot could have used an additional stop. It is a bit out of focus on the rim of the lens near the bottom. This shot of the camera is with a economical Schneider 120mm APO lens. The Caltar-S II 210mm mentioned in the picture is way larger and looks better on the camera and is really a Schneider lens rebranded. Last edited by tuco; 03-10-2010 at 02:05 PM.

03-10-2010, 01:56 PM	#18
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,027	Here is a case of adjusting the front standard by a rotation and tilt until I was satisfied I got both the front of the subject and its reflection in focus. Wisner 4x5 TF, Caltar-S II MC 210mm f5.6, Portra 160VC, Jobo C-41 Press Kit Last edited by tuco; 03-10-2010 at 02:10 PM.

03-10-2010, 06:30 PM	#20
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by MattGunn With SLRs and DSLRs, tilt usually appears to be used to put much of the image out of focus (for minature effects ets) but with large format it is used to put most of the image in focus and control distortion. Actually, my sole reason for getting into tilt photography is to put as much of image in focus at wider apertures as I can, for landscapes. I actually see the "selective focus effect" of an extreme tilt as more of a "glorified lensbaby effect" which is nice, but not what I got the lens and adapters for. Heck, I got Stroebel's "View Camera Techniques" for Christmas and have actually read some of it! Not an expert by any means, but these hand-held practice shots illustrate my efforts (I was "focusing" on the sign in the foreground, at the bottom of the frame): No tilt (50mm Flektogon @ f/5.6): ~5 deg. tilt down (50mm Flektogon @ f/5.6): *Note how the deck boards are not in focus in the second shot until quite a ways out, but the tops of the railings are? It's a "wedge-shaped focus area" alright! _ Last edited by panoguy; 03-10-2010 at 06:55 PM.*

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03-10-2010, 12:30 PM	#16
MattGunn Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 347 Original Poster	Originally posted by kkado Sorry to cross-post a little, but I really want to see more DIY tilt-shift stuff take off... Nothing wrong with cross posting, please keep showing us the results. As tilt shift stuff is quite expensive, DIY tilt shift is definately the way to go. Your sucess with FF slr lenses is well worth showing off as there is a popular opinion that tilt shift won't work without medium or large format lenses. Your results go to show that popular opinion is wrong. Plese keep up the good work and show off your developments. Originally posted by tuco I don't know if this counts because it is inherent to the camera. But this was front lens tilt for focus across the top and rear film plane tilt to make the lens more round. Wisner, Caltar-S II MC 210mm f5.6, Kodak Portra 160VC, Jobo C-41 Press Kit How much tilt did you use on the film & lens respectively? Do you setup your large format camera by calculation or trial and error? With SLRs and DSLRs, tilt usually appears to be used to put much of the image out of focus (for minature effects ets) but with large format it is used to put most of the image in focus and control distortion. Your shot shows clearly how effective this can be, a very LBA inducing shot Would you care to show us a photo of the camera you took this with? Originally posted by Clicker Anyone use either the MC35 or 80 T/S K or M42 from Zenitar? I believe Rense recently got the 35mm Arsat tilt lens, was this what you meant? A thread with some results was started here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/90885-some-fir...5mm-2-8-a.html

03-10-2010, 02:07 PM	#19
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Originally posted by MattGunn I believe Rense recently got the 35mm Arsat tilt lens, was this what you meant? A thread with some results was started here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/90885-some-fir...5mm-2-8-a.html Thanks matt, i read that link but i was referring to user experience with these for reference sake of future LBA (they come in K mount too) MC 35 mm Tilt & Shift M42 lens MC 80 mm Tilt & Shift M42 lens

03-11-2010, 09:49 AM	#21
SquintyEyes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 100	Great illustration. But it's not an exactly apple-to-apple comparison since the bird is missing in the tilted picture. It's too bad that for Pentax users there isn't a really wide perspective-control lens. 35mm seems to be the widest rectilinear option there is. It's one of the (rare) cases where Canon has a clear advantage. Full-frame body with the 17mm would be amazing. But for the price of that rig one might as well go full out with a LF field camera, or a baby-technika, or a GX680.

03-11-2010, 10:14 AM	#22
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,027	Originally posted by panoguy I actually see the "selective focus effect" of an extreme tilt as more of a "glorified lensbaby effect" which is nice, but not what I got the lens and adapters for I have a Lensbaby 3G for my Pentax 67. It is not the same as the creative and interesting selective focus you can do with rotate/shit/tilt setups. The Lensbaby is a simple double lens with a curved field that just moves the sweet spot around.

03-11-2010, 10:29 AM	#23
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by tuco I have a Lensbaby 3G for my Pentax 67. It is not the same as the creative and interesting selective focus you can do with rotate/shit/tilt setups. The Lensbaby is a simple double lens with a curved field that just moves the sweet spot around. . . .

03-11-2010, 10:31 AM	#24
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	On a serious note, I know everyone is interested in wide lenses because the shift feature is very useful in architecture imaging. However, for the miniature effect using tilt, it seems like 50mm to 80mm lenses would be good.

03-11-2010, 08:11 PM	#25
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Clicker Anyone use either the MC35 or 80 T/S K or M42 from Zenitar? The MC 35 TS and MC 80 TS are Arax lenses made by Arsenal in Kiev. They are supposed to be pretty decent and the optics were used in the Hartblei Super-Rotator. Steve

03-11-2010, 08:34 PM	#26
Nick Siebers Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,165	I have a Pentacon 6 --> K tilt adapter, and use on it a MIR 45mm f/3.5 Russian lens. It isn't quite as wide as I would like, is big and heavy, and not multi-coated so flares like crazy. But, it is about as cheaply as I could try tilt lens shooting without being very handy in a DIY way. Showing the effect: And "miniaturization": Little Children Size comparison with DA 40:

03-12-2010, 06:51 AM	#27
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by SquintyEyes Great illustration. But it's not an exactly apple-to-apple comparison since the bird is missing in the tilted picture.

03-12-2010, 07:46 PM	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by tuco Now why did you have to go and post this picture of your beautiful field camera. Do you have any idea the degree of CBA that may be ignited in those of us that are susceptible? I have spent the last 24 hours drooling over similar hunks of wood and brass. Cruel I say...cruel indeed! Steve

03-13-2010, 09:01 AM	#29
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Matt Gun, would love to see a pic of the lens mount of the adapted Olympus 35 shift lens. thanks barondla might try it myself.

03-13-2010, 11:45 AM	#30
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,027	Originally posted by stevebrot Now why did you have to go and post this picture of your beautiful field camera. Do you have any idea the degree of CBA that may be ignited in those of us that are susceptible? I have spent the last 24 hours drooling over similar hunks of wood and brass. Cruel I say...cruel indeed! Steve Because I was asked to I use to have a studio mono rail years ago and traded in for this because I was doing more outdoor shots and this is easier to carry around. It is a challenge to shoot one and there are a 101 ways you can mess up a shot. Today, used lenses for these are cheaper than ever if you avoid the super large image circle architecture lenses and shoot BW.