[spystyle]

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Hello from Maine,

I have a "strobist" question I hope this is an OK place to ask.

I'd like to try a cheap one-light shoot-through umbrella, I have two flash units and a few cameras but need the rest. I've made a list of stuff that might work that I found on eBay but I'd like to run it by someone with strobe smarts first

So here is what I have :

1. Nikon D40 (I shoot Pentax film SLR but my digital at the moment is Nikon, don't kill me!)

2. Nikon SB400 and Pentax AF160Sa flash units, neither has a PC socket.

From the two flash units I have I think the Nikon SB400 is a little stronger (guide number 21 versus guide number 16) so I'll choose that one.

I think need to add PC socket to the SB400 to make it compatible with the wireless receiver, so I can buy one of these :

"Hotshoe to PC Sync Outlet Adapter for Nikon Flash" $10 shipped

Now for an umbrella, light stand, and flash mount :

Photography Studio Lighting Flash Mount Strobist Kit

a 33" umbrella with a 7 foot light stand and a flash mount for $40 shipped

I'm not sure if I'll find 7 feet to be too low, here I could order separately and get a taller light stand :

Flash mount $7 shipped

33 inch umbrella $7 shipped

Heavy Duty 10 ft Light Stand $33 shipped

So now I just need a wireless transmitter and receiver

PT-04 Wireless Flash Trigger Kit with PC Sync Cord $19 shipped

Alright, do you think my plan will work? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks
Craig

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Last edited by spystyle; 01-14-2011 at 06:55 PM.

[enoeske]

I have most of this stuff
Strobist Starving Student SC4 Lighting Kit
I have a different 8' light stand (this one LumoPro 8' Black A/C Stand out of stock) but 7.5-8, same difference.

The 43" umbrella is great. You'll want at least this size or larger for full body shots. 33" would be okay for head/shoulders shots, but too small for full body/family portraits.

You don't need PC sockets with the triggers in the kit either. Hook the transmitter onto the camera hotshoe and the receiver to the flash hotshoe. Switch it on a fire away. They are mostly reliable and better than those PT-04's by a lot.

[spystyle]

Thanks for the reply, I'm checking that stuff out as well as the website and gear in your sig.

I like your website

[oinkely]

I have pretty much all the things you mention (or a version thereof).

I got the cheapest umbrella & holder i could find on ebay, though I got two as i wanted both a relective and a shoot through. They are both the smaller 33" ones but they are fine for starters. then i got the cheapest stands i could find (again on ebay) that went up to 7' - which is handy. I also ordered two sets of pt04 wireless triggers (which are grand as I have only used them in my house so range is not an issue). never tried them outside so have no complaints at all. i also ordered two hot shoe adaptors with pc sockets on them adn two short pc cables. these are handy for connecting the trigger to the flashes while not increasing the height of the overall package by as much as the pt04 reciever does. recently i have also picked up two flash stands (the little plastic feet things that come with fancy high end flashes). these are great when you are using bare flash and don't need the stand.

a lot of people recommend getting the best you can afford, but my experience is that the cheap ebay stuff is fine if you just want to experiment and nto lay out big money in doing so.

have fun playing.

[spystyle]

Cool

I'd like to see some pics of and from your shoestring budget strobe experiment

[spystyle]

OK I ordered a cheap set I can't even afford it so I have to sell something quickly !!!

The lot set me back $76.00 - it included wireless transmitter and receiver, 7 foot light stand with flash and umbrella mount, 33 inch shoot through umbrella, 33 inch reflective umbrella, and Nikon flash to PC synch adapter. Basically everything but the camera, lens, and flash

$76 that's a shoestring budget for sure, less than even a starving student !

I have like a month to wait as I ordered much of the set from China...

Anyway, I watched Zack Aria's OneLight workshop DVD and it was really great!

In it he teaches that aperture controls flash and shutter speed controls ambient light.

He uses manual flash units that are adjustable in power, he shoots completely manual and uses the camera's LCD to look for burned out highlights (you know the blinking lights during review) and histogram.

He mentions using the cameras meter to measure ambient light but that's it. He does not use a flash meter.

I am trying to understand how I will get "calibrated" without having to take a million test shots and maybe over-flash my subject My daughter would complain if I flash her a million times trying to figure out where my exposure is...

So my SB400 flash is fixed power, it can't be adjusted. If I set it up with an umbrella it should be a consistent light source at a given distance.

The ambient light can be metered with my camera (or hand held meter)

But that's where my brain get's stuck - how will I get a clue where to start my exposure ? So I don't need to take too many test shots?

Does this question even make sense ?

Thanks!
Craig

[enoeske]

your question is a valid one and pretty easy to answer.

Experience.

I have 2 flashes that cannot be adjusted. They are just full power discharges. From experience, i can tell you that one of them is almost always perfectly exposed when i am at ISO 100 and f/5.6. The other is a little over f/4.

So, when I start my shoot. I set the camera to its sync speed (1/180th), ISO 100 and f/5.6. Then I look at my shot. Do i want more ambient? Slow the shutter down. Is the flash blowing anything out? Smaller aperture. Adjust as necessary.

I usually use the f/5.6 flash as my main, since I can't adjust it and use the ones I can adjust for other things. Plus, the other flashes have a slave mode so they don't need radio receivers on them.

[spystyle]

Aha, that's it A good starting point. I'm sure that's what Zach was trying to convey on his DVD.

Thanks Enoeske

Start at ISO 100, aperture 5.6, and at synch speed (you can go slower than synch speed but not above it, it's like a speed limit)

Shutter speed controls ambient light, a faster shutter speed gets rid of ambient and a slower shutter speed includes more ambient light

Aperture controls flash, for more flash use a larger aperture (smaller number like f/2), for less flash use a smaller aperture (larger number like f/8)

OK, noted

And here is a nice video about using one light for portraits

[spystyle]

Well I was looking on eBay and I came across the mother of all umbrellas !

Only $1000 shipped, a 7.2 foot diameter reflector !

See also 71" reflector

These are so big It's absurd



I want one!

I Googled up a post about a guy that has one (click)

And I found an alternative that is less than $100 but (apparently) never in stock (click)

[GeneV]

If you want that umbrella, you also want a true studio flash.

I have seven strobes, radio triggers, slave modules and several umbrellas. There are AC adapters for many of those strobes and variable power capability for most, and I have made brackets to mount multiple flashes in one umbrella. For hobby shots and the sheer joy of playing around with stuff, they are fine. With small umbrellas, close distances between the light and the subject, useful ambient light and larger apertures, the basic strobist rig works. A higher ISO also works wonders if the quality is acceptable. A few test shots while looking at the histogram on the DSLR display will find you the right settings.

When you start to need low ISO, more distance, larger diffusion, or more depth of field or quick recharge times, you find that you are starting to double up or triple up the strobes, and you create a rig that would make Dr. Frankenstein proud. If you are lusting for big soft boxes or six foot umbrellas, you need real studio lighting.

[GeneV]

your question is a valid one and pretty easy to answer.

Experience.

I have 2 flashes that cannot be adjusted. They are just full power discharges. From experience, i can tell you that one of them is almost always perfectly exposed when i am at ISO 100 and f/5.6. The other is a little over f/4.

So, when I start my shoot. I set the camera to its sync speed (1/180th), ISO 100 and f/5.6. Then I look at my shot. Do i want more ambient? Slow the shutter down. Is the flash blowing anything out? Smaller aperture. Adjust as necessary.

I usually use the f/5.6 flash as my main, since I can't adjust it and use the ones I can adjust for other things. Plus, the other flashes have a slave mode so they don't need radio receivers on them.

Are you shooting the one flash at ISO 100 F/5.6 into an umbrella? At what distance?

I was looking back at a setup I did for some shots for a friend at about that EV, and it required three Vivitar 283s in two umbrellas to get there with a reasonably soft light. I was probably not using full power, because the 10 second wait for a full power recharge is often unacceptable, but you must have a nicely powered flash to pull that off.

[enoeske]

Are you shooting the one flash at ISO 100 F/5.6 into an umbrella? At what distance?

I was looking back at a setup I did for some shots for a friend at about that EV, and it required three Vivitar 283s in two umbrellas to get there with a reasonably soft light. I was probably not using full power, because the 10 second wait for a full power recharge is often unacceptable, but you must have a nicely powered flash to pull that off.

Yea, into a white shoot through. Typically pretty close since its usually a one person portrait. And at full power, since thats all the flash can do.

[spystyle]

Thanks for all the replies fellas

I realize aperture controls flash, shutter speed controls ambient - but what does ISO do exactly ? I imagine using higher ISO effects ambient and flash equally by stops.

So more ISO means more ambient and more flash, equally, right?

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Also, I see that AC powered strobes have a "modeling light" so you can point the light onto your subject to get an idea of where the strobe's light will be falling (it's like an aiming sight or a preview light). And you can measure the strobe's output with a flash meter. That seems really quick and easy. I see some strobes on eBay going for $62 called "Delicacy 180" (click) (and reviewed here). Jim Talkington of ProPhotoLife recommends the Calumet Genesis for a low cost strobe. Yes one of these days I'll have to try an AC powered strobe and a flash meter But they aren't as rapidly portable as the strobist's "double A" powered umbrellas.

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Hey if you recall from my writing at the top, I have an extra flash unit, I just watched a cool video where they used a slave flash with a gel on it, placed behind the subject to create a cool effect (click)

I'm going to order another PT-04 receiver and have a "dedicated gel flash" for colorful background

I can't wait for my gear to arrive in the mail

[spystyle]

...So, when I start my shoot. I set the camera to its sync speed (1/180th)...

Hey I just found out my Nikon D40 can sync a manual flash at 1/2000 !

I verified my manual flash's voltage with a multimeter to avoid killing my camera, the flash is Pentax AF160sa and it outputs 3 volts.

I attached the flash and set it to manual

I followed the guide on the back of the flash and set my camera to manual, f/8, ISO 200, and placed myself 9 feet away from my subject. I asked my daughter Chloe to jump on the bed and I snapped her at 1/2000 !



So I was surprised I was able to sync so fast and do a manual flash exposure easily - I got a good exposure on the first try, I only brightened it up a little bit in Photoshop.

After I went outside to ambush my father who was working in the yard. I wanted to see if 1/2000 woudl kill the ambient, and it certainly did. The next pic is my dear old dad clapping (by my request) at 1/2000.



So aperture does indeed control flash exposure and shutter speed does indeed control ambient. I had a small lesson with manual flash

Also you can light a subject entirely with flash (aperture) - paying no mind to metered ambient at all.

So is that fast sync cool or what? Apparently it's a fluke with D40, D50 and D70 (click)

Of course when I use this same flash with the "Poverty Wizard" remotes I'm sure it's sync will be slower.

OK, I had to tell someone ! 1/2000

And here is a dude that pushed a D40 to 1/2500 sync

Cheers,
Craig

Update : Hey 1/4000 !!!



Disclaimer if you Googled this : Hey don't just stick any old flash on your D40, the flash's voltage must be measured - if it is too high it could kill the camera!!!!!!!

Update : Hey I wrote a tutorial to get Nikon D40 up to 1/2000 flash sync here

[enoeske]

Yes, the D40 and a few others use a hybrid shutter. Mechanical up to 1/200th I think and electrical up to 1/4000. Definitely makes killing the ambient during daylight a breeze. The newer bodies (and high end) don't do this for a reason, though.